Connectionists: Brain-like computing fanfare and big data fanfare

[Ralph Etienne-Cummings]

Hey, I am happy when our taxpayer money, of which I contribute way more
than I get back, funds any science in all branches of the government.

Neuromorphic and brain-like computing is on the rise ... Let's please not
shoot ourselves in the foot with in-fighting!!

Thanks,
Ralph's Android
On Jan 24, 2014 4:13 PM, "Juyang Weng" <weng at cse.msu.edu> wrote:

>  Yes, Gary, you are correct politically, not to upset the "emperor" since
> he is always right and he never falls behind the literature.
>
> But then no clear message can ever get across.   Falling behind the
> literature is still the fact.  More, the entire research community that
> does brain research falls behind badly the literature of necessary
> disciplines.  The current U.S. infrastructure of this research community
> does not fit at all the brain subject it studies!  This is not a joking
> matter.  We need to wake up, please.
>
> Azriel Rosenfeld criticized the entire computer vision filed in his
> invited talk at CVPR during early 1980s: "just doing business as usual" and
> "more or less the same" .   However, the entire computer vision field still
> has not woken up after 30 years!   As another example, I respect your
> colleague Terry Sejnowski, but I must openly say that I object to his "we
> need more data" as the key message for the U.S. BRAIN Project.  This is
> another example of "just doing business as usual" and so everybody will not
> be against you.
>
> Several major disciplines are closely related to the brain, but the
> scientific community is still very much fragmented, not willing to wake
> up.  Some of our government officials only say superficial worlds like "Big
> Data" because we like to hear.   This cost is too high for our taxpayers.
>
> -John
>
> On 1/24/14 2:19 PM, Gary Cottrell wrote:
>
> Hi John -
>
>  It's great that you have an over-arching theory, but if you want people
> to read it, it would be better not to disrespect people in your emails. You
> say you respect Matthew, but then you accuse him of falling behind in the
> literature because he hasn't read your book. Politeness (and modesty!) will
> get you much farther than the tone you have taken.
>
>  g.
>
>  On Jan 24, 2014, at 6:27 PM, Juyang Weng <weng at cse.msu.edu> wrote:
>
>  Dear Matthew:
>
> My apology if my words are direct, so that people with short attention
> spans can quickly get my points.  I do respect you.
>
> You wrote: "to build hardware that works in a more brain-like way than
> conventional computers do.  This is not what is usually meant by research
> in neural networks."
>
> Your statement is absolutely not true.  Your term "brain-like way" is as
> old as "brain-like computing".  Read about the 14 neurocomputers built by
> 1988 in Robert Hecht-Nielsen, "Neurocomputing: picking the human brain",
> IEEE Spectrum 25(3), March 1988, pp. 36-41.  Hardware will not solve the
> fundamental problems of the current human severe lack in understanding the
> brain, no matter how many computers are linked together.  Neither will the
> current "Big Data" fanfare from NSF in U.S..  The IBM's brain project has
> similar fundamental flaws and the IBM team lacks key experts.
>
> Some of the NSF managers have been turning blind eyes to breakthrough work
> on brain modeling for over a decade, but they want to waste more taxpayer's
> money into its "Big Data" fanfare and other "try again" fanfares.  It is a
> scientific shame for NSF in a developed country like U.S. to do that
> shameful politics without real science, causing another large developing
> country like China to also echo "Big Data".  "Big Data" was called "Large
> Data", well known in Pattern Recognition for many years.  Stop playing
> shameful politics in science!
>
> You wrote: "Nobody is claiming a `brain-scale theory that bridges the wide
> gap,' or even close."
>
> To say that, you have not read the book: Natural and Artificial
> Intelligence <http://www.brain-mind-institute.org/press.html>.  You are
> falling behind the literature so bad as some of our NSF project managers.
> With their lack of knowledge, they did not understand that the "bridge" was
> in print on their desks and in the literature.
>
> -John
>
> On 1/23/14 6:15 PM, Matthew Cook wrote:
>
> Dear John,
>
>  I think all of us on this list are interested in brain-like computing,
> so I don't understand your negativity on the topic.
>
>  Many of the speakers are involved in efforts to build hardware that
> works in a more brain-like way than conventional computers do.  This is not
> what is usually meant by research in neural networks.  I suspect the phrase
> "brain-like computing" is intended as an umbrella term that can cover all
> of these efforts.
>
>  I think you are reading far more into the announcement than is there.
>  Nobody is claiming a "brain-scale theory that bridges the wide gap," or
> even close.  To the contrary, the announcement is very cautious, saying
> that intense research is "gradually increasing our understanding" and
> "beginning to shed light on the human brain".  In other words, the research
> advances slowly, and we are at the beginning.  There is certainly no claim
> that any of the speakers has finished the job.
>
>  Similarly, the announcement refers to "successful demonstration of some
> of the underlying principles [of the brain] in software and hardware",
> which implicitly acknowledges that we do not have all the principles.
>  There is nothing like a claim that anyone has enough principles to
> "explain highly integrated brain functions".
>
>  You are concerned that this workshop will avoid the essential issue of
> the wide gap between neuron-like computing and highly integrated brain
> functions.  What makes you think it will avoid this?  We are all interested
> in filling this gap, and the speakers (well, the ones who I know) all
> either work on this, or work on supporting people who work on this, or both.
>
>  This looks like it will be a very nice workshop, with talks from leaders
> in the field on a variety of topics, and I wish I were able to attend it.
>
>  Matthew
>
>
>  On Jan 23, 2014, at 7:08 PM, Juyang Weng wrote:
>
>  Dear Anders,
>
> Interesting topic about the brain!  But Brain-Like Computing is misleading
> because neural networks have been around for at least 70 years.
>
> I quote: "We are now approaching the point when our knowledge will enable
> successful demonstrations of some of the underlying principles in software
> and hardware, i.e. brain-like computing."
>
> What are the underlying principles?  I am concerned that projects like
> "Brain-Like Computing" avoid essential issues:
> the wide gap between neuron-like computing and well-known highly
> integrated brain functions.
> Continuing this avoidance would again create bad names for "brain-like
> computing", just such behaviors did for "neural networks".
>
> Henry Markram criticized IBM's brain project which does miss essential
> brain principles, but has he published such principles?
> Modeling individual neurons more and more precisely will explain highly
> integrated brain functions?   From what I know, definitely not, by far.
>
> Has any of your 10 speakers published any brain-scale theory that bridges
> the wide gap?  Are you aware of any such published theories?
>
> I am sorry for giving a CC to the list, but many on the list said that
> they like to hear discussions instead of just event announcements.
>
> -John
>
>
> On 1/13/14 12:14 PM, Anders Lansner wrote:
>
>  Workshop on Brain-Like Computing, February 5-6 2014
>
> The exciting prospects of developing brain-like information processing is
> one of the Deans Forum focus areas.
> As a means to encourage progress in this research area a Workshop is
> arranged February 5th-6th 2014 on KTH campus in Stockholm.
>
> The human brain excels over contemporary computers and robots in
> processing real-time unstructured information and uncertain data as well as
> in controlling a complex mechanical platform with multiple degrees of
> freedom like the human body. Intense experimental research complemented by
> computational and informatics efforts are gradually increasing our
> understanding of underlying processes and mechanisms in small animal and
> mammalian brains and are beginning to shed light on the human brain. We are
> now approaching the point when our knowledge will enable successful
> demonstrations of some of the underlying principles in software and
> hardware, i.e. brain-like computing.
>
> This workshop assembles experts, from the partners and also other leading
> names in the field, to provide an overview of the state-of-the-art in
> theoretical, software, and hardware aspects of brain-like computing.
> List of speakers
>
> *Speaker*
>
> *Affiliation*
>
> Giacomo Indiveri
>
> ETH Zürich
>
> Abigail Morrison
>
> Forschungszentrum Jülich
>
> Mark Ritter
>
> IBM Watson Research Center
>
> Guillermo Cecchi
>
> IBM Watson Research Center
>
> Anders Lansner
>
> KTH Royal Institute of Technology
>
> Ahmed Hemani
>
> KTH Royal Institute of Technology
>
> Steve Furber
>
> University of Manchester
>
> Kazuyuki Aihara
>
> University of Tokyo
>
> Karlheinz Meier
>
> Heidelberg University
>
> Andreas Schierwagen
>
> Leipzig University
>
>
>
> *For signing up to the Workshop please use the registration form found at
> http://bit.ly/1dkuBgR <http://bit.ly/1dkuBgR>*
>
> *You need to sign up before January 28th.*
>
> *Web page:
> http://www.kth.se/en/om/internationellt/university-networks/deans-forum/workshop-on-brain-like-computing-1.442038
> <http://www.kth.se/en/om/internationellt/university-networks/deans-forum/workshop-on-brain-like-computing-1.442038>
> *
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ******************************************
>
> Anders Lansner
>
> Professor in Computer Science, Computational biology
>
> School of Computer Science and Communication
>
> Stockholm University and Royal Institute of Technology (KTH)
>
> ala at kth.se, +46-70-2166122
>
>
>
>
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>
> --
> --
> Juyang (John) Weng, Professor
> Department of Computer Science and Engineering
> MSU Cognitive Science Program and MSU Neuroscience Program
> 428 S Shaw Ln Rm 3115
> Michigan State University
> East Lansing, MI 48824 USA
> Tel: 517-353-4388
> Fax: 517-432-1061
> Email: weng at cse.msu.edu
> URL: http://www.cse.msu.edu/~weng/
> ----------------------------------------------
>
>
>
>
> --
> --
> Juyang (John) Weng, Professor
> Department of Computer Science and Engineering
> MSU Cognitive Science Program and MSU Neuroscience Program
> 428 S Shaw Ln Rm 3115
> Michigan State University
> East Lansing, MI 48824 USA
> Tel: 517-353-4388
> Fax: 517-432-1061
> Email: weng at cse.msu.edu
> URL: http://www.cse.msu.edu/~weng/
> ----------------------------------------------
>
>
>
>  [I am in Dijon, France on sabbatical this year. To call me, Skype works
> best (gwcottrell), or dial +33 788319271]
>
>  Gary Cottrell 858-534-6640 FAX: 858-534-7029
>
>  My schedule is here: http://tinyurl.com/b7gxpwo
>
> Computer Science and Engineering 0404
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>
>  Things may come to those who wait, but only the things left by those who
> hustle. -- Abraham Lincoln
>
>  "Of course, none of this will be easy. If it was, we would already
> know everything there was about how the brain works, and presumably my
> life would be simpler here. It could explain all kinds of things that go on
> in Washington." -Barack Obama
>
>  "Probably once or twice a week we are sitting at dinner and Richard
> says, 'The cortex is hopeless,' and I say, 'That's why I work on the
> worm.'" Dr. Bargmann said.
>
> "A grapefruit is a lemon that saw an opportunity and took advantage of
> it." - note written on a door in Amsterdam on Lijnbaansgracht.
>
> "Physical reality is great, but it has a lousy search function." -Matt Tong
>
> "Only connect!" -E.M. Forster
>
> "You always have to believe that tomorrow you might write the matlab
> program that solves everything - otherwise you never will." -Geoff Hinton
>
>  "There is nothing objective about objective functions" - Jay McClelland
>
> "I am awaiting the day when people remember the fact that discovery does
> not work by deciding what you want and then discovering it."
> -David Mermin
>
> Email: gary at ucsd.edu
> Home page: http://www-cse.ucsd.edu/~gary/
>
>
> --
> --
> Juyang (John) Weng, Professor
> Department of Computer Science and Engineering
> MSU Cognitive Science Program and MSU Neuroscience Program
> 428 S Shaw Ln Rm 3115
> Michigan State University
> East Lansing, MI 48824 USA
> Tel: 517-353-4388
> Fax: 517-432-1061
> Email: weng at cse.msu.edu
> URL: http://www.cse.msu.edu/~weng/
> ----------------------------------------------
>
>
>
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