Connectionists: Brain-like computing fanfare and big data fanfare

Fri Jan 24 14:19:06 EST 2014

Hi John -

It's great that you have an over-arching theory, but if you want people to read it, it would be better not to disrespect people in your emails. You say you respect Matthew, but then you accuse him of falling behind in the literature because he hasn't read your book. Politeness (and modesty!) will get you much farther than the tone you have taken.

g.

On Jan 24, 2014, at 6:27 PM, Juyang Weng <weng at cse.msu.edu> wrote:

> Dear Matthew:
> 
> My apology if my words are direct, so that people with short attention spans can quickly get my points.  I do respect you.
> 
> You wrote: "to build hardware that works in a more brain-like way than conventional computers do.  This is not what is usually meant by research in neural networks."
> 
> Your statement is absolutely not true.  Your term "brain-like way" is as old as "brain-like computing".  Read about the 14 neurocomputers built by 1988 in Robert Hecht-Nielsen, "Neurocomputing: picking the human brain", IEEE Spectrum 25(3), March 1988, pp. 36-41.  Hardware will not solve the fundamental problems of the current human severe lack in understanding the brain, no matter how many computers are linked together.  Neither will the current "Big Data" fanfare from NSF in U.S..  The IBM's brain project has similar fundamental flaws and the IBM team lacks key experts.  
> 
> Some of the NSF managers have been turning blind eyes to breakthrough work on brain modeling for over a decade, but they want to waste more taxpayer's money into its "Big Data" fanfare and other "try again" fanfares.  It is a scientific shame for NSF in a developed country like U.S. to do that shameful politics without real science, causing another large developing country like China to also echo "Big Data".  "Big Data" was called "Large Data", well known in Pattern Recognition for many years.  Stop playing shameful politics in science!  
> 
> You wrote: "Nobody is claiming a `brain-scale theory that bridges the wide gap,' or even close." 
> 
> To say that, you have not read the book: Natural and Artificial Intelligence.  You are falling behind the literature so bad as some of our NSF project managers.  With their lack of knowledge, they did not understand that the "bridge" was in print on their desks and in the literature.     
> 
> -John
> 
> On 1/23/14 6:15 PM, Matthew Cook wrote:
>> Dear John,
>> 
>> I think all of us on this list are interested in brain-like computing, so I don't understand your negativity on the topic.
>> 
>> Many of the speakers are involved in efforts to build hardware that works in a more brain-like way than conventional computers do.  This is not what is usually meant by research in neural networks.  I suspect the phrase "brain-like computing" is intended as an umbrella term that can cover all of these efforts.
>> 
>> I think you are reading far more into the announcement than is there.  Nobody is claiming a "brain-scale theory that bridges the wide gap," or even close.  To the contrary, the announcement is very cautious, saying that intense research is "gradually increasing our understanding" and "beginning to shed light on the human brain".  In other words, the research advances slowly, and we are at the beginning.  There is certainly no claim that any of the speakers has finished the job.
>> 
>> Similarly, the announcement refers to "successful demonstration of some of the underlying principles [of the brain] in software and hardware", which implicitly acknowledges that we do not have all the principles.  There is nothing like a claim that anyone has enough principles to "explain highly integrated brain functions".
>> 
>> You are concerned that this workshop will avoid the essential issue of the wide gap between neuron-like computing and highly integrated brain functions.  What makes you think it will avoid this?  We are all interested in filling this gap, and the speakers (well, the ones who I know) all either work on this, or work on supporting people who work on this, or both.
>> 
>> This looks like it will be a very nice workshop, with talks from leaders in the field on a variety of topics, and I wish I were able to attend it.
>> 
>> Matthew
>> 
>> 
>> On Jan 23, 2014, at 7:08 PM, Juyang Weng wrote:
>> 
>>> Dear Anders,
>>> 
>>> Interesting topic about the brain!  But Brain-Like Computing is misleading because neural networks have been around for at least 70 years.
>>> 
>>> I quote: "We are now approaching the point when our knowledge will enable successful demonstrations of some of the underlying principles in software and hardware, i.e. brain-like computing."
>>> 
>>> What are the underlying principles?  I am concerned that projects like "Brain-Like Computing" avoid essential issues: 
>>> the wide gap between neuron-like computing and well-known highly integrated brain functions.
>>> Continuing this avoidance would again create bad names for "brain-like computing", just such behaviors did for "neural networks".
>>> 
>>> Henry Markram criticized IBM's brain project which does miss essential brain principles, but has he published such principles?
>>> Modeling individual neurons more and more precisely will explain highly integrated brain functions?   From what I know, definitely not, by far. 
>>> 
>>> Has any of your 10 speakers published any brain-scale theory that bridges the wide gap?  Are you aware of any such published theories? 
>>> 
>>> I am sorry for giving a CC to the list, but many on the list said that they like to hear discussions instead of just event announcements. 
>>> 
>>> -John
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On 1/13/14 12:14 PM, Anders Lansner wrote:
>>>> Workshop on Brain-Like Computing, February 5-6 2014
>>>> 
>>>> The exciting prospects of developing brain-like information processing is one of the Deans Forum focus areas.
>>>> As a means to encourage progress in this research area a Workshop is arranged February 5th-6th 2014 on KTH campus in Stockholm.
>>>> 
>>>> The human brain excels over contemporary computers and robots in processing real-time unstructured information and uncertain data as well as in controlling a complex mechanical platform with multiple degrees of freedom like the human body. Intense experimental research complemented by computational and informatics efforts are gradually increasing our understanding of underlying processes and mechanisms in small animal and mammalian brains and are beginning to shed light on the human brain. We are now approaching the point when our knowledge will enable successful demonstrations of some of the underlying principles in software and hardware, i.e. brain-like computing.
>>>> 
>>>> This workshop assembles experts, from the partners and also other leading names in the field, to provide an overview of the state-of-the-art in theoretical, software, and hardware aspects of brain-like computing.
>>>> 
>>>> List of speakers
>>>> 
>>>> Speaker
>>>> Affiliation
>>>> Giacomo Indiveri
>>>> ETH Zürich
>>>> Abigail Morrison
>>>> Forschungszentrum Jülich
>>>> Mark Ritter
>>>> IBM Watson Research Center
>>>> Guillermo Cecchi
>>>> IBM Watson Research Center
>>>> Anders Lansner
>>>> KTH Royal Institute of Technology
>>>> Ahmed Hemani
>>>> KTH Royal Institute of Technology
>>>> Steve Furber
>>>> University of Manchester
>>>> Kazuyuki Aihara
>>>> University of Tokyo
>>>> Karlheinz Meier
>>>> Heidelberg University
>>>> Andreas Schierwagen
>>>> Leipzig University
>>>>  
>>>> For signing up to the Workshop please use the registration form found at http://bit.ly/1dkuBgR
>>>> You need to sign up before January 28th.
>>>> Web page: http://www.kth.se/en/om/internationellt/university-networks/deans-forum/workshop-on-brain-like-computing-1.442038
>>>>  
>>>>  
>>>>  
>>>> ******************************************
>>>> Anders Lansner
>>>> Professor in Computer Science, Computational biology
>>>> School of Computer Science and Communication
>>>> Stockholm University and Royal Institute of Technology (KTH)
>>>> ala at kth.se, +46-70-2166122
>>>>  
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>  	
>>>> Detta epostmeddelande innehåller inget virus eller annan skadlig kod för avast! Antivirus är aktivt. 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> --
>>> Juyang (John) Weng, Professor
>>> Department of Computer Science and Engineering
>>> MSU Cognitive Science Program and MSU Neuroscience Program
>>> 428 S Shaw Ln Rm 3115
>>> Michigan State University
>>> East Lansing, MI 48824 USA
>>> Tel: 517-353-4388
>>> Fax: 517-432-1061
>>> Email: weng at cse.msu.edu
>>> URL: http://www.cse.msu.edu/~weng/
>>> ----------------------------------------------
>>> 
>> 
> 
> -- 
> --
> Juyang (John) Weng, Professor
> Department of Computer Science and Engineering
> MSU Cognitive Science Program and MSU Neuroscience Program
> 428 S Shaw Ln Rm 3115
> Michigan State University
> East Lansing, MI 48824 USA
> Tel: 517-353-4388
> Fax: 517-432-1061
> Email: weng at cse.msu.edu
> URL: http://www.cse.msu.edu/~weng/
> ----------------------------------------------
> 

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