Connectionists: Chomsky's apple

[Richard Loosemore]

On 3/8/23 12:25 PM, Terry Sejnowski wrote:
> I have always been impressed with Chomsky's ability to use plausible
> arguments to make his case even when they were fallacious.
>
> https://www.nytimes.com/2023/03/08/opinion/noam-chomsky-chatgpt-ai.html#commentsContainer
>
> "Here’s an example. Suppose you are holding an apple in your hand. Now you let the apple go. You observe the result and say, “The apple falls.” That is a description. A prediction might have been the statement “The apple will fall if I open my hand.” Both are valuable, and both can be correct. But an explanation is something more: It includes not only descriptions and predictions but also counterfactual conjectures like “Any such object would fall,” plus the additional clause “because of the force of gravity” or “because of the curvature of space-time” or whatever. That is a causal explanation: “The apple would not have fallen but for the force of gravity.” That is thinking."
>
> His apple example sounded convincing, so I tested GPT on it:
>
> Me:  If I hold an apple in my hand and let it go what will happen?
>
> GPT:  The apple will fall to the ground due to the force of gravity.
>
> Me: What about any such object?
>
> GPT: Any object released from a person's hand will fall to the ground due to the force of gravity.
>
> Me:  What would happen if there wasn't a force of gravity?
>
> GPT:  If there were no force of gravity, objects would not be able to stay on the ground and would float away in all directions
>
> Chomsky defined thinking by the correct answers to these questions.
>
> Alas, the tide has turned.
>
> Terry
>
> -----
>

So, to be clear Terry, is it your claim that, with this example, 
Chomsky's argument has been shown to be fallacious?

That is sad.  It took me just a couple of minutes to produce the 
counterexample below.

In this exchange Chat-GPT shows a risible lack of understanding of the 
situation.  It is stochastically parroting what it has seen humans say 
about these situations, but since there is ZERO understanding, what it 
says is just downright daft.

Regards,

Richard Loosemore

*************

Me:   Assume that I have created a hole in the ground that goes 
perfectly straight down, through the center of the Earth and all the way 
up to somewhere in Australia. My hand is poised over this hole. If I 
hold an apple in my hand and let it go what will happen?

GPT:  If you were to drop an apple into a hole that goes straight down 
through the Earth, the apple would oscillate back and forth through the 
hole, but it would not come to a stop at the center of the Earth.

According to the laws of physics, the gravitational force acting on the 
apple would cause it to accelerate as it falls toward the center of the 
Earth, and the acceleration would gradually decrease as the apple 
approaches the center of the Earth. Once the apple reaches the center of 
the Earth, it would have zero acceleration, but it would continue moving 
through the hole due to its inertia.

As the apple moves past the center of the Earth, the direction of the 
gravitational force would reverse, causing the apple to decelerate as it 
moves toward the surface on the other side. The apple would continue to 
oscillate back and forth through the hole, with the amplitude of its 
motion gradually decreasing due to frictional forces with the air and 
the sides of the hole.

Eventually, the apple would come to a stop at some point on the opposite 
side of the Earth from where it was dropped. If the hole were perfectly 
straight and without any interference, the apple would come to rest at 
the same distance from the center of the Earth as the starting point, 
but on the opposite side of the planet.

Me:   After the apple came to a stop, as you just described, and 
assuming that there was a person at the opposite end of the hole, would 
that other person be able to reach down and pick up the apple?

GPT:   In theory, yes, the person at the opposite end of the hole could 
pick up the apple after it comes to a stop. However, in practice, this 
would be extremely difficult to achieve, if not impossible.

First, the hole would need to be perfectly straight and smooth in order 
for the apple to come to a stop at the opposite end. Any irregularities 
or deviations from a straight line could cause the apple to get stuck or 
continue oscillating indefinitely.

Second, the hole would need to be airtight in order to prevent air 
resistance from slowing down the apple's motion. Even with an airtight 
hole, frictional forces with the sides of the hole would still cause the 
apple to lose some of its kinetic energy and come to a stop at a point 
slightly short of the opposite end.

Third, retrieving the apple from the bottom of the hole would require 
some kind of retrieval mechanism, such as a robotic arm or a specially 
designed container, since the person at the opposite end of the hole 
would not be able to reach down and pick up the apple by hand.

Overall, while it is theoretically possible for a person to retrieve the 
apple from the bottom of the hole, the practical challenges involved 
make it an extremely difficult and unlikely feat to achieve.

Me:   So, in your first answer, you said "The apple would continue to 
oscillate back and forth through the hole, with the amplitude of its 
motion gradually decreasing due to frictional forces with the air and 
the sides of the hole.  Eventually, the apple would come to a stop ..."  
Did you mean that it comes to a stop after the oscillations?

GPT:  Yes, that's correct. When I said "the apple would continue to 
oscillate back and forth through the hole, with the amplitude of its 
motion gradually decreasing due to frictional forces with the air and 
the sides of the hole," I meant that the apple would oscillate until it 
comes to a stop due to the damping effect of frictional forces. The 
oscillations would gradually decrease in amplitude as the frictional 
forces dissipate the kinetic energy of the apple, and eventually, the 
apple would come to a stop at some point on the opposite side of the 
Earth from where it was dropped.

*************