Connectionists: Stephen Hanson in conversation with Geoff Hinton

[Juyang Weng]

Dear Asim,
I try to be brief so that I can explain why many of us have missed, and
will continue to miss, the boat.
In some of my talks, I have a ppt slide "The brain is like blindmen and an
elephant".
Unfortunately, your "identify objects based on its parts" is a good
traditional idea from pattern recognition that is still a blindman.
Your idea does not explain many other problems without which we will never
understand a biological brain.
For example, your idea does not explain how the brain learns planning and
discovery in a cluttered world.
We must solve many million-dollar problems holistically.  Please watch my
YouTube video:
Title: An Algorithmic Theory for Conscious Learning: 10 Million-Dollar
Problems Solved
https://youtu.be/Dgx1dLCdSKY
Best regards,
-John

On Sat, Feb 5, 2022 at 12:01 AM Asim Roy <ASIM.ROY at asu.edu> wrote:

> I am responding to this part of Geoffrey Hinton’s note:
>
>
>
> *“I agree that it's nice to have a causal explanations. But I am not
> convinced there will ever be a simple causal explanation for how you
> recognize that a handwritten 2 is a 2. We can introspect on how we do it
> and this may or may not give some insight into how we check our answer, but
> the immediate sense that a handwritten 2 is a 2 is computed by a neural net
> that is not functionally equivalent to any simple and easily explainable
> procedure.”*
>
>
>
> The causal explanation is actually done quite simply, and we are doing it
> currently. I can talk about this now because Arizona State University (ASU)
> has filed a provisional patent application on the technology. The basic
> idea was laid out by DARPA in their Explainable AI (XAI) program (Explainable
> Artificial Intelligence (darpa.mil)
> <https://www.darpa.mil/program/explainable-artificial-intelligence>) and
> illustrated in the figure below. The idea is to identify objects based on
> its parts. So, the figure below says that it’s a cat because it has fur,
> whiskers, and claws plus an unlabeled visual feature. I am not sure if
> DARPA got anything close to this from its funding of various entities. What
> this means is that you need a parts model. And we do that. In the case of
> MNIST handwritten digits that Geoff mentions, we “teach” this parts model
> what the top part of a digit “3” looks like, what the bottom part looks
> like and so on. And we also teach connectivity between parts and the
> composition of objects from parts. And we do that for all digits. And we
> get a symbolic model sitting on top of a CNN model that provides the
> explanation that Geoff is referring to as the causal explanation. This
> “teaching” is similar to the way you would teach a kid to recognize
> different digits.
>
>
>
> An advantage of this parts model, in addition to being in an explainable
> symbolic form, is robustness to adversarial attack. We recently tested on
> the MNIST data. Where a regular CNN model’s accuracy was reduced by a fast
> gradient method to 27%, our XAI model maintained an accuracy of 90%,
> probably higher. In general, it would be hard to make a school bus look
> like an ostrich, with a few pixel changes, if you can identify the parts of
> a school bus and an ostrich.
>
>
>
> A parts model that DARPA wanted provides both a symbolic explanation and
> adversarial protection. The problem that Geoffrey is referring to is solved.
>
>
>
> I am doing a tutorial on this at IEEE World Congress on Computational
> Intelligence in Padua, Italy, July 2022 (WCCI2022 – WCCI2022 Padua, Italy
> 18-23 July <https://wcci2022.org/>). I am copying the organizers and want
> to thank them for accepting the tutorial proposal. The only other
> presentation I have done on this is at a Military Operations Research
> Society (MORS) meeting last December.
>
>
>
> So, back to the future. Hybrid models might indeed save deep learning
> models and let us deploy these models without concern. We might not even
> need adversarial training of any kind.
>
>
>
> Asim Roy
>
> Professor, Information Systems
>
> Arizona State University
>
> Lifeboat Foundation Bios: Professor Asim Roy
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>
>
>
> *From:* Connectionists <connectionists-bounces at mailman.srv.cs.cmu.edu> *On
> Behalf Of *Geoffrey Hinton
> *Sent:* Friday, February 4, 2022 1:24 PM
> *To:* Dietterich, Thomas <tgd at oregonstate.edu>
> *Cc:* AIhub <aihuborg at gmail.com>; connectionists at mailman.srv.cs.cmu.edu
> *Subject:* Re: Connectionists: Stephen Hanson in conversation with Geoff
> Hinton
>
>
>
> I agree that it's nice to have a causal explanations. But I am not
> convinced there will ever be a simple causal explanation for how you
> recognize that a handwritten 2 is a 2. We can introspect on how we do it
> and this may or may not give some insight into how we check our answer, but
> the immediate sense that a handwritten 2 is a 2 is computed by a neural net
> that is not functionally equivalent to any simple and easily explainable
> procedure.
>
>
>
> This does not mean that we should give up on trying to make artificial
> neural nets work more like real ones. People can see a tilted square as
> either an upright diamond or a tilted square and, so far as I know, a
> convnet does not exhibit this type of alternate percept.  People seem to
> impose hierarchical structural descriptions on images and sound waves and
> they clearly impose intrinsic coordinate frames on wholes and parts. If
> this is what Gary means by symbolic then I don’t disagree that neural nets
> should do symbol processing. However, there is a very different meaning of
> "symbolic". A pure atomic symbol has no internal structure. The form of the
> symbol itself tells you nothing about what it denotes. The only relevant
> properties it has are that it's identical to other instances of the
> same symbol and different from all other symbols.  That's totally different
> from a neural net that uses embedding vectors.  Embedding vectors have a
> rich internal structure that dictates how they interact with other
> embedding vectors. What I really object to is the following approach: Start
> with pure symbols and rules for how to manipulate structures made out of
> pure symbols. These structures themselves can be denoted by symbols that
> correspond to  memory addresses where the bits in the address tell you
> nothing about the content of the structure at that address.  Then when the
> rule-based approach doesn't work for dealing with the real world (e.g.
> machine translation) try to use neural nets to convert the real world into
> pure symbols and then carry on with the rule-based approach. That is like
> using an electric motor to inject the gasoline into the same old gasoline
> engine instead of just replacing the gasoline engine with an electric motor.
>
>
>
>
>
> On Fri, Feb 4, 2022 at 2:32 AM Dietterich, Thomas <tgd at oregonstate.edu>
> wrote:
>
> “Understanding” is not a Boolean. It is a theorem that no system can
> enumerate all of the consequences of a state of affairs in the world.
>
>
>
> For low-stakes application work, we can be satisfied by a system that
> “does the right thing”. If the system draws a good picture, that’s
> sufficient. It “understood” the request.
>
>
>
> But for higher-stakes applications---and for advancing the science---we
> seek a causal account of how the components of a system cause it to do the
> right thing. We are hoping that a small set of mechanisms can produce broad
> coverage of intelligent behavior. This gives us confidence that the system
> will respond correctly outside of the narrow tasks on which we have tested
> it.
>
>
>
> --Tom
>
>
>
> Thomas G. Dietterich, Distinguished Professor Emeritus
>
> School of Electrical Engineering and Computer
> Science
>
> US Mail: 1148 Kelley Engineering Center
>
>
>
> Office: 2067 Kelley Engineering Center
>
> Oregon State Univ., Corvallis, OR 97331-5501
>
> Voice: 541-737-5559; FAX: 541-737-1300
>
> URL: http://web.engr.oregonstate.edu/~tgd/
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__http:/web.engr.oregonstate.edu/*tgd/__;fg!!IKRxdwAv5BmarQ!IcLaVAupTYedSuWIPJGuIdRdOzEq4sib8fyufCCcC5bvaoUXwfrn-27dCL3hm84$>
>
>
>
> *From:* Connectionists <connectionists-bounces at mailman.srv.cs.cmu.edu> *On
> Behalf Of *Gary Marcus
> *Sent:* Thursday, February 3, 2022 8:26 AM
> *To:* Danko Nikolic <danko.nikolic at gmail.com>
> *Cc:* connectionists at mailman.srv.cs.cmu.edu; AIhub <aihuborg at gmail.com>
> *Subject:* Re: Connectionists: Stephen Hanson in conversation with Geoff
> Hinton
>
>
>
> [This email originated from outside of OSU. Use caution with links and
> attachments.]
>
> Dear Danko,
>
>
>
> Well said. I had a somewhat similar response to Jeff Dean’s 2021 TED talk,
> in which he said (paraphrasing from memory, because I don’t remember the
> precise words) that the famous 200 Quoc Le unsupervised model [
> https://static.googleusercontent.com/media/research.google.com/en//archive/unsupervised_icml2012.pdf
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Fstatic.googleusercontent.com*2Fmedia*2Fresearch.google.com*2Fen*2F*2Farchive*2Funsupervised_icml2012.pdf&data=04*7C01*7Ctgd*40oregonstate.edu*7C3db6ca275cc748415eaa08d9e732a318*7Cce6d05e13c5e4d6287a84c4a2713c113*7C0*7C0*7C637795026944990348*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C3000&sdata=l1WwVtsu*2BBMn0UfnWdN7tHCdsWTdIi9P*2Ffd50ThMgEs*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUl!!IKRxdwAv5BmarQ!IcLaVAupTYedSuWIPJGuIdRdOzEq4sib8fyufCCcC5bvaoUXwfrn-27dfwthUg4$>]
> had learned the concept of a ca. In reality the model had clustered
> together some catlike images based on the image statistics that it had
> extracted, but it was a long way from a full, counterfactual-supporting
> concept of a cat, much as you describe below.
>
>
>
> I fully agree with you that the reason for even having a semantics is as
> you put it, "to 1) learn with a few examples and 2) apply the knowledge to
> a broad set of situations.” GPT-3 sometimes gives the appearance of having
> done so, but it falls apart under close inspection, so the problem remains
> unsolved.
>
>
>
> Gary
>
>
>
> On Feb 3, 2022, at 3:19 AM, Danko Nikolic <danko.nikolic at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> G. Hinton wrote: "I believe that any reasonable person would admit that if
> you ask a neural net to draw a picture of a hamster wearing a red hat and
> it draws such a picture, it understood the request."
>
>
>
> I would like to suggest why drawing a hamster with a red hat does not
> necessarily imply understanding of the statement "hamster wearing a red
> hat".
>
> To understand that "hamster wearing a red hat" would mean inferring, in
> newly emerging situations of this hamster, all the real-life
> implications that the red hat brings to the little animal.
>
>
>
> What would happen to the hat if the hamster rolls on its back? (Would the
> hat fall off?)
>
> What would happen to the red hat when the hamster enters its lair? (Would
> the hat fall off?)
>
> What would happen to that hamster when it goes foraging? (Would the red
> hat have an influence on finding food?)
>
> What would happen in a situation of being chased by a predator? (Would it
> be easier for predators to spot the hamster?)
>
>
>
> ...and so on.
>
>
>
> Countless many questions can be asked. One has understood "hamster wearing
> a red hat" only if one can answer reasonably well many of such real-life
> relevant questions. Similarly, a student has understood materias in a class
> only if they can apply the materials in real-life situations (e.g.,
> applying Pythagora's theorem). If a student gives a correct answer to a
> multiple choice question, we don't know whether the student understood the
> material or whether this was just rote learning (often, it is rote
> learning).
>
>
>
> I also suggest that understanding also comes together with effective
> learning: We store new information in such a way that we can recall it
> later and use it effectively  i.e., make good inferences in newly emerging
> situations based on this knowledge.
>
>
>
> In short: Understanding makes us humans able to 1) learn with a few
> examples and 2) apply the knowledge to a broad set of situations.
>
>
>
> No neural network today has such capabilities and we don't know how to
> give them such capabilities. Neural networks need large amounts of
> training examples that cover a large variety of situations and then
> the networks can only deal with what the training examples have already
> covered. Neural networks cannot extrapolate in that 'understanding' sense.
>
>
>
> I suggest that understanding truly extrapolates from a piece of knowledge.
> It is not about satisfying a task such as translation between languages or
> drawing hamsters with hats. It is how you got the capability to complete
> the task: Did you only have a few examples that covered something different
> but related and then you extrapolated from that knowledge? If yes, this is
> going in the direction of understanding. Have you seen countless examples
> and then interpolated among them? Then perhaps it is not understanding.
>
>
>
> So, for the case of drawing a hamster wearing a red hat, understanding
> perhaps would have taken place if the following happened before that:
>
>
>
> 1) first, the network learned about hamsters (not many examples)
>
> 2) after that the network learned about red hats (outside the context of
> hamsters and without many examples)
>
> 3) finally the network learned about drawing (outside of the context of
> hats and hamsters, not many examples)
>
>
>
> After that, the network is asked to draw a hamster with a red hat. If it
> does it successfully, maybe we have started cracking the problem of
> understanding.
>
>
>
> Note also that this requires the network to learn sequentially without
> exhibiting catastrophic forgetting of the previous knowledge, which is
> possibly also a consequence of human learning by understanding.
>
>
>
>
>
> Danko
>
>
>
>
>
>
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> Dr. Danko Nikolić
> www.danko-nikolic.com
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.proofpoint.com*2Fv2*2Furl*3Fu*3Dhttp-3A__www.danko-2Dnikolic.com*26d*3DDwMFaQ*26c*3DslrrB7dE8n7gBJbeO0g-IQ*26r*3DwQR1NePCSj6dOGDD0r6B5Kn1fcNaTMg7tARe7TdEDqQ*26m*3DwaSKY67JF57IZXg30ysFB_R7OG9zoQwFwxyps6FbTa1Zh5mttxRot_t4N7mn68Pj*26s*3DHwOLDw6UCRzU5-FPSceKjtpNm7C6sZQU5kuGAMVbPaI*26e*3D&data=04*7C01*7Ctgd*40oregonstate.edu*7C3db6ca275cc748415eaa08d9e732a318*7Cce6d05e13c5e4d6287a84c4a2713c113*7C0*7C0*7C637795026944990348*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C3000&sdata=4tckqFTDoD5PoPbncU5nuSw1jRQ5yHbl1rEZExji4iQ*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSU!!IKRxdwAv5BmarQ!IcLaVAupTYedSuWIPJGuIdRdOzEq4sib8fyufCCcC5bvaoUXwfrn-27dySwMZ7s$>
> https://www.linkedin.com/in/danko-nikolic/
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.proofpoint.com*2Fv2*2Furl*3Fu*3Dhttps-3A__www.linkedin.com_in_danko-2Dnikolic_*26d*3DDwMFaQ*26c*3DslrrB7dE8n7gBJbeO0g-IQ*26r*3DwQR1NePCSj6dOGDD0r6B5Kn1fcNaTMg7tARe7TdEDqQ*26m*3DwaSKY67JF57IZXg30ysFB_R7OG9zoQwFwxyps6FbTa1Zh5mttxRot_t4N7mn68Pj*26s*3Db70c8lokmxM3Kz66OfMIM4pROgAhTJOAlp205vOmCQ8*26e*3D&data=04*7C01*7Ctgd*40oregonstate.edu*7C3db6ca275cc748415eaa08d9e732a318*7Cce6d05e13c5e4d6287a84c4a2713c113*7C0*7C0*7C637795026944990348*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C3000&sdata=NJoyEx8ZVu82e0Tw5u*2BNCEQtcJ8tW*2BnOpgD*2FwkVTZ*2FM*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUl!!IKRxdwAv5BmarQ!IcLaVAupTYedSuWIPJGuIdRdOzEq4sib8fyufCCcC5bvaoUXwfrn-27dnZcQQxs$>
>
> --- A progress usually starts with an insight ---
>
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>
> On Thu, Feb 3, 2022 at 9:55 AM Asim Roy <*ASIM.ROY at asu.edu*> wrote:
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.proofpoint.com*2Fv2*2Furl*3Fu*3Dhttps-3A__www.avast.com_sig-2Demail-3Futm-5Fmedium-3Demail-26utm-5Fsource-3Dlink-26utm-5Fcampaign-3Dsig-2Demail-26utm-5Fcontent-3Dwebmail*26d*3DDwMFaQ*26c*3DslrrB7dE8n7gBJbeO0g-IQ*26r*3DwQR1NePCSj6dOGDD0r6B5Kn1fcNaTMg7tARe7TdEDqQ*26m*3DwaSKY67JF57IZXg30ysFB_R7OG9zoQwFwxyps6FbTa1Zh5mttxRot_t4N7mn68Pj*26s*3DAo9QQWtO62go0hx1tb3NU6xw2FNBadjj8q64-hl5Sx4*26e*3D&data=04*7C01*7Ctgd*40oregonstate.edu*7C3db6ca275cc748415eaa08d9e732a318*7Cce6d05e13c5e4d6287a84c4a2713c113*7C0*7C0*7C637795026944990348*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C3000&sdata=gRfN5WuMr4*2BLwZMRqPOPaTJ97VoUB*2FVRMELwu5lQeiU*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJQ!!IKRxdwAv5BmarQ!IcLaVAupTYedSuWIPJGuIdRdOzEq4sib8fyufCCcC5bvaoUXwfrn-27dvH_NVZ8$>
>
> Without getting into the specific dispute between Gary and Geoff, I think
> with approaches similar to GLOM, we are finally headed in the right
> direction. There’s plenty of neurophysiological evidence for single-cell
> abstractions and multisensory neurons in the brain, which one might claim
> correspond to symbols. And I think we can finally reconcile the decades old
> dispute between Symbolic AI and Connectionism.
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.proofpoint.com*2Fv2*2Furl*3Fu*3Dhttps-3A__www.avast.com_sig-2Demail-3Futm-5Fmedium-3Demail-26utm-5Fsource-3Dlink-26utm-5Fcampaign-3Dsig-2Demail-26utm-5Fcontent-3Dwebmail*26d*3DDwMFaQ*26c*3DslrrB7dE8n7gBJbeO0g-IQ*26r*3DwQR1NePCSj6dOGDD0r6B5Kn1fcNaTMg7tARe7TdEDqQ*26m*3DwaSKY67JF57IZXg30ysFB_R7OG9zoQwFwxyps6FbTa1Zh5mttxRot_t4N7mn68Pj*26s*3DAo9QQWtO62go0hx1tb3NU6xw2FNBadjj8q64-hl5Sx4*26e*3D&data=04*7C01*7Ctgd*40oregonstate.edu*7C3db6ca275cc748415eaa08d9e732a318*7Cce6d05e13c5e4d6287a84c4a2713c113*7C0*7C0*7C637795026944990348*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C3000&sdata=gRfN5WuMr4*2BLwZMRqPOPaTJ97VoUB*2FVRMELwu5lQeiU*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJQ!!IKRxdwAv5BmarQ!IcLaVAupTYedSuWIPJGuIdRdOzEq4sib8fyufCCcC5bvaoUXwfrn-27dvH_NVZ8$>
>
>
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>
> GARY: (Your GLOM, which as you know I praised publicly, is in many ways an
> effort to wind up with encodings that effectively serve as symbols in
> exactly that way, guaranteed to serve as consistent representations of
> specific concepts.)
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.proofpoint.com*2Fv2*2Furl*3Fu*3Dhttps-3A__www.avast.com_sig-2Demail-3Futm-5Fmedium-3Demail-26utm-5Fsource-3Dlink-26utm-5Fcampaign-3Dsig-2Demail-26utm-5Fcontent-3Dwebmail*26d*3DDwMFaQ*26c*3DslrrB7dE8n7gBJbeO0g-IQ*26r*3DwQR1NePCSj6dOGDD0r6B5Kn1fcNaTMg7tARe7TdEDqQ*26m*3DwaSKY67JF57IZXg30ysFB_R7OG9zoQwFwxyps6FbTa1Zh5mttxRot_t4N7mn68Pj*26s*3DAo9QQWtO62go0hx1tb3NU6xw2FNBadjj8q64-hl5Sx4*26e*3D&data=04*7C01*7Ctgd*40oregonstate.edu*7C3db6ca275cc748415eaa08d9e732a318*7Cce6d05e13c5e4d6287a84c4a2713c113*7C0*7C0*7C637795026944990348*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C3000&sdata=gRfN5WuMr4*2BLwZMRqPOPaTJ97VoUB*2FVRMELwu5lQeiU*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJQ!!IKRxdwAv5BmarQ!IcLaVAupTYedSuWIPJGuIdRdOzEq4sib8fyufCCcC5bvaoUXwfrn-27dvH_NVZ8$>
>
> GARY: I have *never* called for dismissal of neural networks, but rather
> for some hybrid between the two (as you yourself contemplated in 1991); the
> point of the 2001 book was to characterize exactly where multilayer
> perceptrons succeeded and broke down, and where symbols could complement
> them.
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.proofpoint.com*2Fv2*2Furl*3Fu*3Dhttps-3A__www.avast.com_sig-2Demail-3Futm-5Fmedium-3Demail-26utm-5Fsource-3Dlink-26utm-5Fcampaign-3Dsig-2Demail-26utm-5Fcontent-3Dwebmail*26d*3DDwMFaQ*26c*3DslrrB7dE8n7gBJbeO0g-IQ*26r*3DwQR1NePCSj6dOGDD0r6B5Kn1fcNaTMg7tARe7TdEDqQ*26m*3DwaSKY67JF57IZXg30ysFB_R7OG9zoQwFwxyps6FbTa1Zh5mttxRot_t4N7mn68Pj*26s*3DAo9QQWtO62go0hx1tb3NU6xw2FNBadjj8q64-hl5Sx4*26e*3D&data=04*7C01*7Ctgd*40oregonstate.edu*7C3db6ca275cc748415eaa08d9e732a318*7Cce6d05e13c5e4d6287a84c4a2713c113*7C0*7C0*7C637795026944990348*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C3000&sdata=gRfN5WuMr4*2BLwZMRqPOPaTJ97VoUB*2FVRMELwu5lQeiU*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJQ!!IKRxdwAv5BmarQ!IcLaVAupTYedSuWIPJGuIdRdOzEq4sib8fyufCCcC5bvaoUXwfrn-27dvH_NVZ8$>
>
>
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>
> Asim Roy
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.proofpoint.com*2Fv2*2Furl*3Fu*3Dhttps-3A__www.avast.com_sig-2Demail-3Futm-5Fmedium-3Demail-26utm-5Fsource-3Dlink-26utm-5Fcampaign-3Dsig-2Demail-26utm-5Fcontent-3Dwebmail*26d*3DDwMFaQ*26c*3DslrrB7dE8n7gBJbeO0g-IQ*26r*3DwQR1NePCSj6dOGDD0r6B5Kn1fcNaTMg7tARe7TdEDqQ*26m*3DwaSKY67JF57IZXg30ysFB_R7OG9zoQwFwxyps6FbTa1Zh5mttxRot_t4N7mn68Pj*26s*3DAo9QQWtO62go0hx1tb3NU6xw2FNBadjj8q64-hl5Sx4*26e*3D&data=04*7C01*7Ctgd*40oregonstate.edu*7C3db6ca275cc748415eaa08d9e732a318*7Cce6d05e13c5e4d6287a84c4a2713c113*7C0*7C0*7C637795026944990348*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C3000&sdata=gRfN5WuMr4*2BLwZMRqPOPaTJ97VoUB*2FVRMELwu5lQeiU*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJQ!!IKRxdwAv5BmarQ!IcLaVAupTYedSuWIPJGuIdRdOzEq4sib8fyufCCcC5bvaoUXwfrn-27dvH_NVZ8$>
>
> Professor, Information Systems
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.proofpoint.com*2Fv2*2Furl*3Fu*3Dhttps-3A__www.avast.com_sig-2Demail-3Futm-5Fmedium-3Demail-26utm-5Fsource-3Dlink-26utm-5Fcampaign-3Dsig-2Demail-26utm-5Fcontent-3Dwebmail*26d*3DDwMFaQ*26c*3DslrrB7dE8n7gBJbeO0g-IQ*26r*3DwQR1NePCSj6dOGDD0r6B5Kn1fcNaTMg7tARe7TdEDqQ*26m*3DwaSKY67JF57IZXg30ysFB_R7OG9zoQwFwxyps6FbTa1Zh5mttxRot_t4N7mn68Pj*26s*3DAo9QQWtO62go0hx1tb3NU6xw2FNBadjj8q64-hl5Sx4*26e*3D&data=04*7C01*7Ctgd*40oregonstate.edu*7C3db6ca275cc748415eaa08d9e732a318*7Cce6d05e13c5e4d6287a84c4a2713c113*7C0*7C0*7C637795026944990348*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C3000&sdata=gRfN5WuMr4*2BLwZMRqPOPaTJ97VoUB*2FVRMELwu5lQeiU*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJQ!!IKRxdwAv5BmarQ!IcLaVAupTYedSuWIPJGuIdRdOzEq4sib8fyufCCcC5bvaoUXwfrn-27dvH_NVZ8$>
>
> Arizona State University
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.proofpoint.com*2Fv2*2Furl*3Fu*3Dhttps-3A__www.avast.com_sig-2Demail-3Futm-5Fmedium-3Demail-26utm-5Fsource-3Dlink-26utm-5Fcampaign-3Dsig-2Demail-26utm-5Fcontent-3Dwebmail*26d*3DDwMFaQ*26c*3DslrrB7dE8n7gBJbeO0g-IQ*26r*3DwQR1NePCSj6dOGDD0r6B5Kn1fcNaTMg7tARe7TdEDqQ*26m*3DwaSKY67JF57IZXg30ysFB_R7OG9zoQwFwxyps6FbTa1Zh5mttxRot_t4N7mn68Pj*26s*3DAo9QQWtO62go0hx1tb3NU6xw2FNBadjj8q64-hl5Sx4*26e*3D&data=04*7C01*7Ctgd*40oregonstate.edu*7C3db6ca275cc748415eaa08d9e732a318*7Cce6d05e13c5e4d6287a84c4a2713c113*7C0*7C0*7C637795026944990348*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C3000&sdata=gRfN5WuMr4*2BLwZMRqPOPaTJ97VoUB*2FVRMELwu5lQeiU*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJQ!!IKRxdwAv5BmarQ!IcLaVAupTYedSuWIPJGuIdRdOzEq4sib8fyufCCcC5bvaoUXwfrn-27dvH_NVZ8$>
>
> *Lifeboat Foundation Bios: Professor Asim Roy*
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.proofpoint.com*2Fv2*2Furl*3Fu*3Dhttps-3A__www.avast.com_sig-2Demail-3Futm-5Fmedium-3Demail-26utm-5Fsource-3Dlink-26utm-5Fcampaign-3Dsig-2Demail-26utm-5Fcontent-3Dwebmail*26d*3DDwMFaQ*26c*3DslrrB7dE8n7gBJbeO0g-IQ*26r*3DwQR1NePCSj6dOGDD0r6B5Kn1fcNaTMg7tARe7TdEDqQ*26m*3DwaSKY67JF57IZXg30ysFB_R7OG9zoQwFwxyps6FbTa1Zh5mttxRot_t4N7mn68Pj*26s*3DAo9QQWtO62go0hx1tb3NU6xw2FNBadjj8q64-hl5Sx4*26e*3D&data=04*7C01*7Ctgd*40oregonstate.edu*7C3db6ca275cc748415eaa08d9e732a318*7Cce6d05e13c5e4d6287a84c4a2713c113*7C0*7C0*7C637795026944990348*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C3000&sdata=gRfN5WuMr4*2BLwZMRqPOPaTJ97VoUB*2FVRMELwu5lQeiU*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJQ!!IKRxdwAv5BmarQ!IcLaVAupTYedSuWIPJGuIdRdOzEq4sib8fyufCCcC5bvaoUXwfrn-27dvH_NVZ8$>
>
> *Asim Roy | iSearch (asu.edu)*
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.proofpoint.com*2Fv2*2Furl*3Fu*3Dhttps-3A__www.avast.com_sig-2Demail-3Futm-5Fmedium-3Demail-26utm-5Fsource-3Dlink-26utm-5Fcampaign-3Dsig-2Demail-26utm-5Fcontent-3Dwebmail*26d*3DDwMFaQ*26c*3DslrrB7dE8n7gBJbeO0g-IQ*26r*3DwQR1NePCSj6dOGDD0r6B5Kn1fcNaTMg7tARe7TdEDqQ*26m*3DwaSKY67JF57IZXg30ysFB_R7OG9zoQwFwxyps6FbTa1Zh5mttxRot_t4N7mn68Pj*26s*3DAo9QQWtO62go0hx1tb3NU6xw2FNBadjj8q64-hl5Sx4*26e*3D&data=04*7C01*7Ctgd*40oregonstate.edu*7C3db6ca275cc748415eaa08d9e732a318*7Cce6d05e13c5e4d6287a84c4a2713c113*7C0*7C0*7C637795026944990348*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C3000&sdata=gRfN5WuMr4*2BLwZMRqPOPaTJ97VoUB*2FVRMELwu5lQeiU*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJQ!!IKRxdwAv5BmarQ!IcLaVAupTYedSuWIPJGuIdRdOzEq4sib8fyufCCcC5bvaoUXwfrn-27dvH_NVZ8$>
>
>
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.proofpoint.com*2Fv2*2Furl*3Fu*3Dhttps-3A__www.avast.com_sig-2Demail-3Futm-5Fmedium-3Demail-26utm-5Fsource-3Dlink-26utm-5Fcampaign-3Dsig-2Demail-26utm-5Fcontent-3Dwebmail*26d*3DDwMFaQ*26c*3DslrrB7dE8n7gBJbeO0g-IQ*26r*3DwQR1NePCSj6dOGDD0r6B5Kn1fcNaTMg7tARe7TdEDqQ*26m*3DwaSKY67JF57IZXg30ysFB_R7OG9zoQwFwxyps6FbTa1Zh5mttxRot_t4N7mn68Pj*26s*3DAo9QQWtO62go0hx1tb3NU6xw2FNBadjj8q64-hl5Sx4*26e*3D&data=04*7C01*7Ctgd*40oregonstate.edu*7C3db6ca275cc748415eaa08d9e732a318*7Cce6d05e13c5e4d6287a84c4a2713c113*7C0*7C0*7C637795026944990348*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C3000&sdata=gRfN5WuMr4*2BLwZMRqPOPaTJ97VoUB*2FVRMELwu5lQeiU*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJQ!!IKRxdwAv5BmarQ!IcLaVAupTYedSuWIPJGuIdRdOzEq4sib8fyufCCcC5bvaoUXwfrn-27dvH_NVZ8$>
>
>
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.proofpoint.com*2Fv2*2Furl*3Fu*3Dhttps-3A__www.avast.com_sig-2Demail-3Futm-5Fmedium-3Demail-26utm-5Fsource-3Dlink-26utm-5Fcampaign-3Dsig-2Demail-26utm-5Fcontent-3Dwebmail*26d*3DDwMFaQ*26c*3DslrrB7dE8n7gBJbeO0g-IQ*26r*3DwQR1NePCSj6dOGDD0r6B5Kn1fcNaTMg7tARe7TdEDqQ*26m*3DwaSKY67JF57IZXg30ysFB_R7OG9zoQwFwxyps6FbTa1Zh5mttxRot_t4N7mn68Pj*26s*3DAo9QQWtO62go0hx1tb3NU6xw2FNBadjj8q64-hl5Sx4*26e*3D&data=04*7C01*7Ctgd*40oregonstate.edu*7C3db6ca275cc748415eaa08d9e732a318*7Cce6d05e13c5e4d6287a84c4a2713c113*7C0*7C0*7C637795026944990348*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C3000&sdata=gRfN5WuMr4*2BLwZMRqPOPaTJ97VoUB*2FVRMELwu5lQeiU*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJQ!!IKRxdwAv5BmarQ!IcLaVAupTYedSuWIPJGuIdRdOzEq4sib8fyufCCcC5bvaoUXwfrn-27dvH_NVZ8$>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From: Connectionists <connectionists-bounces at mailman.srv.cs.cmu.edu> On
> Behalf Of Gary Marcus Sent: Wednesday, February 2, 2022 1:26 PM To:
> Geoffrey Hinton <geoffrey.hinton at gmail.com> Cc: AIhub <aihuborg at gmail.com>;
> connectionists at mailman.srv.cs.cmu.edu Subject: Re: Connectionists: Stephen
> Hanson in conversation with Geoff Hinton
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.proofpoint.com*2Fv2*2Furl*3Fu*3Dhttps-3A__www.avast.com_sig-2Demail-3Futm-5Fmedium-3Demail-26utm-5Fsource-3Dlink-26utm-5Fcampaign-3Dsig-2Demail-26utm-5Fcontent-3Dwebmail*26d*3DDwMFaQ*26c*3DslrrB7dE8n7gBJbeO0g-IQ*26r*3DwQR1NePCSj6dOGDD0r6B5Kn1fcNaTMg7tARe7TdEDqQ*26m*3DwaSKY67JF57IZXg30ysFB_R7OG9zoQwFwxyps6FbTa1Zh5mttxRot_t4N7mn68Pj*26s*3DAo9QQWtO62go0hx1tb3NU6xw2FNBadjj8q64-hl5Sx4*26e*3D&data=04*7C01*7Ctgd*40oregonstate.edu*7C3db6ca275cc748415eaa08d9e732a318*7Cce6d05e13c5e4d6287a84c4a2713c113*7C0*7C0*7C637795026944990348*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C3000&sdata=gRfN5WuMr4*2BLwZMRqPOPaTJ97VoUB*2FVRMELwu5lQeiU*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJQ!!IKRxdwAv5BmarQ!IcLaVAupTYedSuWIPJGuIdRdOzEq4sib8fyufCCcC5bvaoUXwfrn-27dvH_NVZ8$>*
>
>
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.proofpoint.com*2Fv2*2Furl*3Fu*3Dhttps-3A__www.avast.com_sig-2Demail-3Futm-5Fmedium-3Demail-26utm-5Fsource-3Dlink-26utm-5Fcampaign-3Dsig-2Demail-26utm-5Fcontent-3Dwebmail*26d*3DDwMFaQ*26c*3DslrrB7dE8n7gBJbeO0g-IQ*26r*3DwQR1NePCSj6dOGDD0r6B5Kn1fcNaTMg7tARe7TdEDqQ*26m*3DwaSKY67JF57IZXg30ysFB_R7OG9zoQwFwxyps6FbTa1Zh5mttxRot_t4N7mn68Pj*26s*3DAo9QQWtO62go0hx1tb3NU6xw2FNBadjj8q64-hl5Sx4*26e*3D&data=04*7C01*7Ctgd*40oregonstate.edu*7C3db6ca275cc748415eaa08d9e732a318*7Cce6d05e13c5e4d6287a84c4a2713c113*7C0*7C0*7C637795026944990348*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C3000&sdata=gRfN5WuMr4*2BLwZMRqPOPaTJ97VoUB*2FVRMELwu5lQeiU*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJQ!!IKRxdwAv5BmarQ!IcLaVAupTYedSuWIPJGuIdRdOzEq4sib8fyufCCcC5bvaoUXwfrn-27dvH_NVZ8$>
>
> Dear Geoff, and interested others,
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.proofpoint.com*2Fv2*2Furl*3Fu*3Dhttps-3A__www.avast.com_sig-2Demail-3Futm-5Fmedium-3Demail-26utm-5Fsource-3Dlink-26utm-5Fcampaign-3Dsig-2Demail-26utm-5Fcontent-3Dwebmail*26d*3DDwMFaQ*26c*3DslrrB7dE8n7gBJbeO0g-IQ*26r*3DwQR1NePCSj6dOGDD0r6B5Kn1fcNaTMg7tARe7TdEDqQ*26m*3DwaSKY67JF57IZXg30ysFB_R7OG9zoQwFwxyps6FbTa1Zh5mttxRot_t4N7mn68Pj*26s*3DAo9QQWtO62go0hx1tb3NU6xw2FNBadjj8q64-hl5Sx4*26e*3D&data=04*7C01*7Ctgd*40oregonstate.edu*7C3db6ca275cc748415eaa08d9e732a318*7Cce6d05e13c5e4d6287a84c4a2713c113*7C0*7C0*7C637795026944990348*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C3000&sdata=gRfN5WuMr4*2BLwZMRqPOPaTJ97VoUB*2FVRMELwu5lQeiU*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJQ!!IKRxdwAv5BmarQ!IcLaVAupTYedSuWIPJGuIdRdOzEq4sib8fyufCCcC5bvaoUXwfrn-27dvH_NVZ8$>
>
>
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.proofpoint.com*2Fv2*2Furl*3Fu*3Dhttps-3A__www.avast.com_sig-2Demail-3Futm-5Fmedium-3Demail-26utm-5Fsource-3Dlink-26utm-5Fcampaign-3Dsig-2Demail-26utm-5Fcontent-3Dwebmail*26d*3DDwMFaQ*26c*3DslrrB7dE8n7gBJbeO0g-IQ*26r*3DwQR1NePCSj6dOGDD0r6B5Kn1fcNaTMg7tARe7TdEDqQ*26m*3DwaSKY67JF57IZXg30ysFB_R7OG9zoQwFwxyps6FbTa1Zh5mttxRot_t4N7mn68Pj*26s*3DAo9QQWtO62go0hx1tb3NU6xw2FNBadjj8q64-hl5Sx4*26e*3D&data=04*7C01*7Ctgd*40oregonstate.edu*7C3db6ca275cc748415eaa08d9e732a318*7Cce6d05e13c5e4d6287a84c4a2713c113*7C0*7C0*7C637795026944990348*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C3000&sdata=gRfN5WuMr4*2BLwZMRqPOPaTJ97VoUB*2FVRMELwu5lQeiU*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJQ!!IKRxdwAv5BmarQ!IcLaVAupTYedSuWIPJGuIdRdOzEq4sib8fyufCCcC5bvaoUXwfrn-27dvH_NVZ8$>
>
> What, for example, would you make of a system that often drew the
> red-hatted hamster you requested, and perhaps a fifth of the time gave you
> utter nonsense?  Or say one that you trained to create birds but sometimes
> output stuff like this:
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.proofpoint.com*2Fv2*2Furl*3Fu*3Dhttps-3A__www.avast.com_sig-2Demail-3Futm-5Fmedium-3Demail-26utm-5Fsource-3Dlink-26utm-5Fcampaign-3Dsig-2Demail-26utm-5Fcontent-3Dwebmail*26d*3DDwMFaQ*26c*3DslrrB7dE8n7gBJbeO0g-IQ*26r*3DwQR1NePCSj6dOGDD0r6B5Kn1fcNaTMg7tARe7TdEDqQ*26m*3DwaSKY67JF57IZXg30ysFB_R7OG9zoQwFwxyps6FbTa1Zh5mttxRot_t4N7mn68Pj*26s*3DAo9QQWtO62go0hx1tb3NU6xw2FNBadjj8q64-hl5Sx4*26e*3D&data=04*7C01*7Ctgd*40oregonstate.edu*7C3db6ca275cc748415eaa08d9e732a318*7Cce6d05e13c5e4d6287a84c4a2713c113*7C0*7C0*7C637795026944990348*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C3000&sdata=gRfN5WuMr4*2BLwZMRqPOPaTJ97VoUB*2FVRMELwu5lQeiU*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJQ!!IKRxdwAv5BmarQ!IcLaVAupTYedSuWIPJGuIdRdOzEq4sib8fyufCCcC5bvaoUXwfrn-27dvH_NVZ8$>
>
>
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.proofpoint.com*2Fv2*2Furl*3Fu*3Dhttps-3A__www.avast.com_sig-2Demail-3Futm-5Fmedium-3Demail-26utm-5Fsource-3Dlink-26utm-5Fcampaign-3Dsig-2Demail-26utm-5Fcontent-3Dwebmail*26d*3DDwMFaQ*26c*3DslrrB7dE8n7gBJbeO0g-IQ*26r*3DwQR1NePCSj6dOGDD0r6B5Kn1fcNaTMg7tARe7TdEDqQ*26m*3DwaSKY67JF57IZXg30ysFB_R7OG9zoQwFwxyps6FbTa1Zh5mttxRot_t4N7mn68Pj*26s*3DAo9QQWtO62go0hx1tb3NU6xw2FNBadjj8q64-hl5Sx4*26e*3D&data=04*7C01*7Ctgd*40oregonstate.edu*7C3db6ca275cc748415eaa08d9e732a318*7Cce6d05e13c5e4d6287a84c4a2713c113*7C0*7C0*7C637795026944990348*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C3000&sdata=gRfN5WuMr4*2BLwZMRqPOPaTJ97VoUB*2FVRMELwu5lQeiU*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJQ!!IKRxdwAv5BmarQ!IcLaVAupTYedSuWIPJGuIdRdOzEq4sib8fyufCCcC5bvaoUXwfrn-27dvH_NVZ8$>
>
> <image001.png>
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.proofpoint.com*2Fv2*2Furl*3Fu*3Dhttps-3A__www.avast.com_sig-2Demail-3Futm-5Fmedium-3Demail-26utm-5Fsource-3Dlink-26utm-5Fcampaign-3Dsig-2Demail-26utm-5Fcontent-3Dwebmail*26d*3DDwMFaQ*26c*3DslrrB7dE8n7gBJbeO0g-IQ*26r*3DwQR1NePCSj6dOGDD0r6B5Kn1fcNaTMg7tARe7TdEDqQ*26m*3DwaSKY67JF57IZXg30ysFB_R7OG9zoQwFwxyps6FbTa1Zh5mttxRot_t4N7mn68Pj*26s*3DAo9QQWtO62go0hx1tb3NU6xw2FNBadjj8q64-hl5Sx4*26e*3D&data=04*7C01*7Ctgd*40oregonstate.edu*7C3db6ca275cc748415eaa08d9e732a318*7Cce6d05e13c5e4d6287a84c4a2713c113*7C0*7C0*7C637795026944990348*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C3000&sdata=gRfN5WuMr4*2BLwZMRqPOPaTJ97VoUB*2FVRMELwu5lQeiU*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJQ!!IKRxdwAv5BmarQ!IcLaVAupTYedSuWIPJGuIdRdOzEq4sib8fyufCCcC5bvaoUXwfrn-27dvH_NVZ8$>
>
>
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.proofpoint.com*2Fv2*2Furl*3Fu*3Dhttps-3A__www.avast.com_sig-2Demail-3Futm-5Fmedium-3Demail-26utm-5Fsource-3Dlink-26utm-5Fcampaign-3Dsig-2Demail-26utm-5Fcontent-3Dwebmail*26d*3DDwMFaQ*26c*3DslrrB7dE8n7gBJbeO0g-IQ*26r*3DwQR1NePCSj6dOGDD0r6B5Kn1fcNaTMg7tARe7TdEDqQ*26m*3DwaSKY67JF57IZXg30ysFB_R7OG9zoQwFwxyps6FbTa1Zh5mttxRot_t4N7mn68Pj*26s*3DAo9QQWtO62go0hx1tb3NU6xw2FNBadjj8q64-hl5Sx4*26e*3D&data=04*7C01*7Ctgd*40oregonstate.edu*7C3db6ca275cc748415eaa08d9e732a318*7Cce6d05e13c5e4d6287a84c4a2713c113*7C0*7C0*7C637795026944990348*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C3000&sdata=gRfN5WuMr4*2BLwZMRqPOPaTJ97VoUB*2FVRMELwu5lQeiU*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJQ!!IKRxdwAv5BmarQ!IcLaVAupTYedSuWIPJGuIdRdOzEq4sib8fyufCCcC5bvaoUXwfrn-27dvH_NVZ8$>
>
> One could
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.proofpoint.com*2Fv2*2Furl*3Fu*3Dhttps-3A__www.avast.com_sig-2Demail-3Futm-5Fmedium-3Demail-26utm-5Fsource-3Dlink-26utm-5Fcampaign-3Dsig-2Demail-26utm-5Fcontent-3Dwebmail*26d*3DDwMFaQ*26c*3DslrrB7dE8n7gBJbeO0g-IQ*26r*3DwQR1NePCSj6dOGDD0r6B5Kn1fcNaTMg7tARe7TdEDqQ*26m*3DwaSKY67JF57IZXg30ysFB_R7OG9zoQwFwxyps6FbTa1Zh5mttxRot_t4N7mn68Pj*26s*3DAo9QQWtO62go0hx1tb3NU6xw2FNBadjj8q64-hl5Sx4*26e*3D&data=04*7C01*7Ctgd*40oregonstate.edu*7C3db6ca275cc748415eaa08d9e732a318*7Cce6d05e13c5e4d6287a84c4a2713c113*7C0*7C0*7C637795026944990348*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C3000&sdata=gRfN5WuMr4*2BLwZMRqPOPaTJ97VoUB*2FVRMELwu5lQeiU*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJQ!!IKRxdwAv5BmarQ!IcLaVAupTYedSuWIPJGuIdRdOzEq4sib8fyufCCcC5bvaoUXwfrn-27dvH_NVZ8$>
>
>
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.proofpoint.com*2Fv2*2Furl*3Fu*3Dhttps-3A__www.avast.com_sig-2Demail-3Futm-5Fmedium-3Demail-26utm-5Fsource-3Dlink-26utm-5Fcampaign-3Dsig-2Demail-26utm-5Fcontent-3Dwebmail*26d*3DDwMFaQ*26c*3DslrrB7dE8n7gBJbeO0g-IQ*26r*3DwQR1NePCSj6dOGDD0r6B5Kn1fcNaTMg7tARe7TdEDqQ*26m*3DwaSKY67JF57IZXg30ysFB_R7OG9zoQwFwxyps6FbTa1Zh5mttxRot_t4N7mn68Pj*26s*3DAo9QQWtO62go0hx1tb3NU6xw2FNBadjj8q64-hl5Sx4*26e*3D&data=04*7C01*7Ctgd*40oregonstate.edu*7C3db6ca275cc748415eaa08d9e732a318*7Cce6d05e13c5e4d6287a84c4a2713c113*7C0*7C0*7C637795026944990348*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C3000&sdata=gRfN5WuMr4*2BLwZMRqPOPaTJ97VoUB*2FVRMELwu5lQeiU*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJQ!!IKRxdwAv5BmarQ!IcLaVAupTYedSuWIPJGuIdRdOzEq4sib8fyufCCcC5bvaoUXwfrn-27dvH_NVZ8$>
>
> a. avert one’s eyes and deem the anomalous outputs irrelevant
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.proofpoint.com*2Fv2*2Furl*3Fu*3Dhttps-3A__www.avast.com_sig-2Demail-3Futm-5Fmedium-3Demail-26utm-5Fsource-3Dlink-26utm-5Fcampaign-3Dsig-2Demail-26utm-5Fcontent-3Dwebmail*26d*3DDwMFaQ*26c*3DslrrB7dE8n7gBJbeO0g-IQ*26r*3DwQR1NePCSj6dOGDD0r6B5Kn1fcNaTMg7tARe7TdEDqQ*26m*3DwaSKY67JF57IZXg30ysFB_R7OG9zoQwFwxyps6FbTa1Zh5mttxRot_t4N7mn68Pj*26s*3DAo9QQWtO62go0hx1tb3NU6xw2FNBadjj8q64-hl5Sx4*26e*3D&data=04*7C01*7Ctgd*40oregonstate.edu*7C3db6ca275cc748415eaa08d9e732a318*7Cce6d05e13c5e4d6287a84c4a2713c113*7C0*7C0*7C637795026944990348*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C3000&sdata=gRfN5WuMr4*2BLwZMRqPOPaTJ97VoUB*2FVRMELwu5lQeiU*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJQ!!IKRxdwAv5BmarQ!IcLaVAupTYedSuWIPJGuIdRdOzEq4sib8fyufCCcC5bvaoUXwfrn-27dvH_NVZ8$>
>
> or
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.proofpoint.com*2Fv2*2Furl*3Fu*3Dhttps-3A__www.avast.com_sig-2Demail-3Futm-5Fmedium-3Demail-26utm-5Fsource-3Dlink-26utm-5Fcampaign-3Dsig-2Demail-26utm-5Fcontent-3Dwebmail*26d*3DDwMFaQ*26c*3DslrrB7dE8n7gBJbeO0g-IQ*26r*3DwQR1NePCSj6dOGDD0r6B5Kn1fcNaTMg7tARe7TdEDqQ*26m*3DwaSKY67JF57IZXg30ysFB_R7OG9zoQwFwxyps6FbTa1Zh5mttxRot_t4N7mn68Pj*26s*3DAo9QQWtO62go0hx1tb3NU6xw2FNBadjj8q64-hl5Sx4*26e*3D&data=04*7C01*7Ctgd*40oregonstate.edu*7C3db6ca275cc748415eaa08d9e732a318*7Cce6d05e13c5e4d6287a84c4a2713c113*7C0*7C0*7C637795026944990348*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C3000&sdata=gRfN5WuMr4*2BLwZMRqPOPaTJ97VoUB*2FVRMELwu5lQeiU*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJQ!!IKRxdwAv5BmarQ!IcLaVAupTYedSuWIPJGuIdRdOzEq4sib8fyufCCcC5bvaoUXwfrn-27dvH_NVZ8$>
>
> b. wonder if it might be possible that sometimes the system gets the right
> answer for the wrong reasons (eg partial historical contingency), and
> wonder whether another approach might be indicated.
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.proofpoint.com*2Fv2*2Furl*3Fu*3Dhttps-3A__www.avast.com_sig-2Demail-3Futm-5Fmedium-3Demail-26utm-5Fsource-3Dlink-26utm-5Fcampaign-3Dsig-2Demail-26utm-5Fcontent-3Dwebmail*26d*3DDwMFaQ*26c*3DslrrB7dE8n7gBJbeO0g-IQ*26r*3DwQR1NePCSj6dOGDD0r6B5Kn1fcNaTMg7tARe7TdEDqQ*26m*3DwaSKY67JF57IZXg30ysFB_R7OG9zoQwFwxyps6FbTa1Zh5mttxRot_t4N7mn68Pj*26s*3DAo9QQWtO62go0hx1tb3NU6xw2FNBadjj8q64-hl5Sx4*26e*3D&data=04*7C01*7Ctgd*40oregonstate.edu*7C3db6ca275cc748415eaa08d9e732a318*7Cce6d05e13c5e4d6287a84c4a2713c113*7C0*7C0*7C637795026944990348*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C3000&sdata=gRfN5WuMr4*2BLwZMRqPOPaTJ97VoUB*2FVRMELwu5lQeiU*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJQ!!IKRxdwAv5BmarQ!IcLaVAupTYedSuWIPJGuIdRdOzEq4sib8fyufCCcC5bvaoUXwfrn-27dvH_NVZ8$>
>
>
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.proofpoint.com*2Fv2*2Furl*3Fu*3Dhttps-3A__www.avast.com_sig-2Demail-3Futm-5Fmedium-3Demail-26utm-5Fsource-3Dlink-26utm-5Fcampaign-3Dsig-2Demail-26utm-5Fcontent-3Dwebmail*26d*3DDwMFaQ*26c*3DslrrB7dE8n7gBJbeO0g-IQ*26r*3DwQR1NePCSj6dOGDD0r6B5Kn1fcNaTMg7tARe7TdEDqQ*26m*3DwaSKY67JF57IZXg30ysFB_R7OG9zoQwFwxyps6FbTa1Zh5mttxRot_t4N7mn68Pj*26s*3DAo9QQWtO62go0hx1tb3NU6xw2FNBadjj8q64-hl5Sx4*26e*3D&data=04*7C01*7Ctgd*40oregonstate.edu*7C3db6ca275cc748415eaa08d9e732a318*7Cce6d05e13c5e4d6287a84c4a2713c113*7C0*7C0*7C637795026944990348*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C3000&sdata=gRfN5WuMr4*2BLwZMRqPOPaTJ97VoUB*2FVRMELwu5lQeiU*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJQ!!IKRxdwAv5BmarQ!IcLaVAupTYedSuWIPJGuIdRdOzEq4sib8fyufCCcC5bvaoUXwfrn-27dvH_NVZ8$>
>
> Benchmarks are harder than they look; most of the field has come to
> recognize that. The Turing Test has turned out to be a lousy measure of
> intelligence, easily gamed. It has turned out empirically that the Winograd
> Schema Challenge did not measure common sense as well as Hector might have
> thought. (As it happens, I am a minor coauthor of a very recent review on
> this very topic: *https://arxiv.org/abs/2201.02387*) But its conquest in
> no way means machines now have common sense; many people from many
> different perspectives recognize that (including, e.g., Yann LeCun, who
> generally tends to be more aligned with you than with me).
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.proofpoint.com*2Fv2*2Furl*3Fu*3Dhttps-3A__www.avast.com_sig-2Demail-3Futm-5Fmedium-3Demail-26utm-5Fsource-3Dlink-26utm-5Fcampaign-3Dsig-2Demail-26utm-5Fcontent-3Dwebmail*26d*3DDwMFaQ*26c*3DslrrB7dE8n7gBJbeO0g-IQ*26r*3DwQR1NePCSj6dOGDD0r6B5Kn1fcNaTMg7tARe7TdEDqQ*26m*3DwaSKY67JF57IZXg30ysFB_R7OG9zoQwFwxyps6FbTa1Zh5mttxRot_t4N7mn68Pj*26s*3DAo9QQWtO62go0hx1tb3NU6xw2FNBadjj8q64-hl5Sx4*26e*3D&data=04*7C01*7Ctgd*40oregonstate.edu*7C3db6ca275cc748415eaa08d9e732a318*7Cce6d05e13c5e4d6287a84c4a2713c113*7C0*7C0*7C637795026944990348*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C3000&sdata=gRfN5WuMr4*2BLwZMRqPOPaTJ97VoUB*2FVRMELwu5lQeiU*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJQ!!IKRxdwAv5BmarQ!IcLaVAupTYedSuWIPJGuIdRdOzEq4sib8fyufCCcC5bvaoUXwfrn-27dvH_NVZ8$>
>
>
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.proofpoint.com*2Fv2*2Furl*3Fu*3Dhttps-3A__www.avast.com_sig-2Demail-3Futm-5Fmedium-3Demail-26utm-5Fsource-3Dlink-26utm-5Fcampaign-3Dsig-2Demail-26utm-5Fcontent-3Dwebmail*26d*3DDwMFaQ*26c*3DslrrB7dE8n7gBJbeO0g-IQ*26r*3DwQR1NePCSj6dOGDD0r6B5Kn1fcNaTMg7tARe7TdEDqQ*26m*3DwaSKY67JF57IZXg30ysFB_R7OG9zoQwFwxyps6FbTa1Zh5mttxRot_t4N7mn68Pj*26s*3DAo9QQWtO62go0hx1tb3NU6xw2FNBadjj8q64-hl5Sx4*26e*3D&data=04*7C01*7Ctgd*40oregonstate.edu*7C3db6ca275cc748415eaa08d9e732a318*7Cce6d05e13c5e4d6287a84c4a2713c113*7C0*7C0*7C637795026944990348*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C3000&sdata=gRfN5WuMr4*2BLwZMRqPOPaTJ97VoUB*2FVRMELwu5lQeiU*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJQ!!IKRxdwAv5BmarQ!IcLaVAupTYedSuWIPJGuIdRdOzEq4sib8fyufCCcC5bvaoUXwfrn-27dvH_NVZ8$>
>
> So: on the goalpost of the Winograd schema, I was wrong, and you can quote
> me; but what you said about me and machine translation remains your
> invention, and it is inexcusable that you simply ignored my 2019
> clarification. On the essential goal of trying to reach meaning and
> understanding, I remain unmoved; the problem remains unsolved.
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.proofpoint.com*2Fv2*2Furl*3Fu*3Dhttps-3A__www.avast.com_sig-2Demail-3Futm-5Fmedium-3Demail-26utm-5Fsource-3Dlink-26utm-5Fcampaign-3Dsig-2Demail-26utm-5Fcontent-3Dwebmail*26d*3DDwMFaQ*26c*3DslrrB7dE8n7gBJbeO0g-IQ*26r*3DwQR1NePCSj6dOGDD0r6B5Kn1fcNaTMg7tARe7TdEDqQ*26m*3DwaSKY67JF57IZXg30ysFB_R7OG9zoQwFwxyps6FbTa1Zh5mttxRot_t4N7mn68Pj*26s*3DAo9QQWtO62go0hx1tb3NU6xw2FNBadjj8q64-hl5Sx4*26e*3D&data=04*7C01*7Ctgd*40oregonstate.edu*7C3db6ca275cc748415eaa08d9e732a318*7Cce6d05e13c5e4d6287a84c4a2713c113*7C0*7C0*7C637795026944990348*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C3000&sdata=gRfN5WuMr4*2BLwZMRqPOPaTJ97VoUB*2FVRMELwu5lQeiU*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJQ!!IKRxdwAv5BmarQ!IcLaVAupTYedSuWIPJGuIdRdOzEq4sib8fyufCCcC5bvaoUXwfrn-27dvH_NVZ8$>
>
>
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.proofpoint.com*2Fv2*2Furl*3Fu*3Dhttps-3A__www.avast.com_sig-2Demail-3Futm-5Fmedium-3Demail-26utm-5Fsource-3Dlink-26utm-5Fcampaign-3Dsig-2Demail-26utm-5Fcontent-3Dwebmail*26d*3DDwMFaQ*26c*3DslrrB7dE8n7gBJbeO0g-IQ*26r*3DwQR1NePCSj6dOGDD0r6B5Kn1fcNaTMg7tARe7TdEDqQ*26m*3DwaSKY67JF57IZXg30ysFB_R7OG9zoQwFwxyps6FbTa1Zh5mttxRot_t4N7mn68Pj*26s*3DAo9QQWtO62go0hx1tb3NU6xw2FNBadjj8q64-hl5Sx4*26e*3D&data=04*7C01*7Ctgd*40oregonstate.edu*7C3db6ca275cc748415eaa08d9e732a318*7Cce6d05e13c5e4d6287a84c4a2713c113*7C0*7C0*7C637795026944990348*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C3000&sdata=gRfN5WuMr4*2BLwZMRqPOPaTJ97VoUB*2FVRMELwu5lQeiU*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJQ!!IKRxdwAv5BmarQ!IcLaVAupTYedSuWIPJGuIdRdOzEq4sib8fyufCCcC5bvaoUXwfrn-27dvH_NVZ8$>
>
> All of the problems LLMs have with coherence, reliability, truthfulness,
> misinformation, etc stand witness to that fact. (Their persistent inability
> to filter out toxic and insulting remarks stems from the same.) I am hardly
> the only person in the field to see that progress on any given benchmark
> does not inherently mean that the deep underlying problems have solved.
> You, yourself, in fact, have occasionally made that point.
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.proofpoint.com*2Fv2*2Furl*3Fu*3Dhttps-3A__www.avast.com_sig-2Demail-3Futm-5Fmedium-3Demail-26utm-5Fsource-3Dlink-26utm-5Fcampaign-3Dsig-2Demail-26utm-5Fcontent-3Dwebmail*26d*3DDwMFaQ*26c*3DslrrB7dE8n7gBJbeO0g-IQ*26r*3DwQR1NePCSj6dOGDD0r6B5Kn1fcNaTMg7tARe7TdEDqQ*26m*3DwaSKY67JF57IZXg30ysFB_R7OG9zoQwFwxyps6FbTa1Zh5mttxRot_t4N7mn68Pj*26s*3DAo9QQWtO62go0hx1tb3NU6xw2FNBadjj8q64-hl5Sx4*26e*3D&data=04*7C01*7Ctgd*40oregonstate.edu*7C3db6ca275cc748415eaa08d9e732a318*7Cce6d05e13c5e4d6287a84c4a2713c113*7C0*7C0*7C637795026944990348*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C3000&sdata=gRfN5WuMr4*2BLwZMRqPOPaTJ97VoUB*2FVRMELwu5lQeiU*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJQ!!IKRxdwAv5BmarQ!IcLaVAupTYedSuWIPJGuIdRdOzEq4sib8fyufCCcC5bvaoUXwfrn-27dvH_NVZ8$>
>
>
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.proofpoint.com*2Fv2*2Furl*3Fu*3Dhttps-3A__www.avast.com_sig-2Demail-3Futm-5Fmedium-3Demail-26utm-5Fsource-3Dlink-26utm-5Fcampaign-3Dsig-2Demail-26utm-5Fcontent-3Dwebmail*26d*3DDwMFaQ*26c*3DslrrB7dE8n7gBJbeO0g-IQ*26r*3DwQR1NePCSj6dOGDD0r6B5Kn1fcNaTMg7tARe7TdEDqQ*26m*3DwaSKY67JF57IZXg30ysFB_R7OG9zoQwFwxyps6FbTa1Zh5mttxRot_t4N7mn68Pj*26s*3DAo9QQWtO62go0hx1tb3NU6xw2FNBadjj8q64-hl5Sx4*26e*3D&data=04*7C01*7Ctgd*40oregonstate.edu*7C3db6ca275cc748415eaa08d9e732a318*7Cce6d05e13c5e4d6287a84c4a2713c113*7C0*7C0*7C637795026944990348*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C3000&sdata=gRfN5WuMr4*2BLwZMRqPOPaTJ97VoUB*2FVRMELwu5lQeiU*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJQ!!IKRxdwAv5BmarQ!IcLaVAupTYedSuWIPJGuIdRdOzEq4sib8fyufCCcC5bvaoUXwfrn-27dvH_NVZ8$>
>
> With respect to embeddings: Embeddings are very good for natural language
> *processing*; but NLP is not the same as NL*U* – when it comes to
> *understanding*, their worth is still an open question. Perhaps they will
> turn out to be necessary; they clearly aren’t sufficient. In their extreme,
> they might even collapse into being symbols, in the sense of uniquely
> identifiable encodings, akin to the ASCII code, in which a specific set of
> numbers stands for a specific word or concept. (Wouldn’t that be ironic?)
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.proofpoint.com*2Fv2*2Furl*3Fu*3Dhttps-3A__www.avast.com_sig-2Demail-3Futm-5Fmedium-3Demail-26utm-5Fsource-3Dlink-26utm-5Fcampaign-3Dsig-2Demail-26utm-5Fcontent-3Dwebmail*26d*3DDwMFaQ*26c*3DslrrB7dE8n7gBJbeO0g-IQ*26r*3DwQR1NePCSj6dOGDD0r6B5Kn1fcNaTMg7tARe7TdEDqQ*26m*3DwaSKY67JF57IZXg30ysFB_R7OG9zoQwFwxyps6FbTa1Zh5mttxRot_t4N7mn68Pj*26s*3DAo9QQWtO62go0hx1tb3NU6xw2FNBadjj8q64-hl5Sx4*26e*3D&data=04*7C01*7Ctgd*40oregonstate.edu*7C3db6ca275cc748415eaa08d9e732a318*7Cce6d05e13c5e4d6287a84c4a2713c113*7C0*7C0*7C637795026944990348*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C3000&sdata=gRfN5WuMr4*2BLwZMRqPOPaTJ97VoUB*2FVRMELwu5lQeiU*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJQ!!IKRxdwAv5BmarQ!IcLaVAupTYedSuWIPJGuIdRdOzEq4sib8fyufCCcC5bvaoUXwfrn-27dvH_NVZ8$>
>
>
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.proofpoint.com*2Fv2*2Furl*3Fu*3Dhttps-3A__www.avast.com_sig-2Demail-3Futm-5Fmedium-3Demail-26utm-5Fsource-3Dlink-26utm-5Fcampaign-3Dsig-2Demail-26utm-5Fcontent-3Dwebmail*26d*3DDwMFaQ*26c*3DslrrB7dE8n7gBJbeO0g-IQ*26r*3DwQR1NePCSj6dOGDD0r6B5Kn1fcNaTMg7tARe7TdEDqQ*26m*3DwaSKY67JF57IZXg30ysFB_R7OG9zoQwFwxyps6FbTa1Zh5mttxRot_t4N7mn68Pj*26s*3DAo9QQWtO62go0hx1tb3NU6xw2FNBadjj8q64-hl5Sx4*26e*3D&data=04*7C01*7Ctgd*40oregonstate.edu*7C3db6ca275cc748415eaa08d9e732a318*7Cce6d05e13c5e4d6287a84c4a2713c113*7C0*7C0*7C637795026944990348*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C3000&sdata=gRfN5WuMr4*2BLwZMRqPOPaTJ97VoUB*2FVRMELwu5lQeiU*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJQ!!IKRxdwAv5BmarQ!IcLaVAupTYedSuWIPJGuIdRdOzEq4sib8fyufCCcC5bvaoUXwfrn-27dvH_NVZ8$>
>
> (Your GLOM, which as you know I praised publicly, is in many ways an
> effort to wind up with encodings that effectively serve as symbols in
> exactly that way, guaranteed to serve as consistent representations of
> specific concepts.)
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.proofpoint.com*2Fv2*2Furl*3Fu*3Dhttps-3A__www.avast.com_sig-2Demail-3Futm-5Fmedium-3Demail-26utm-5Fsource-3Dlink-26utm-5Fcampaign-3Dsig-2Demail-26utm-5Fcontent-3Dwebmail*26d*3DDwMFaQ*26c*3DslrrB7dE8n7gBJbeO0g-IQ*26r*3DwQR1NePCSj6dOGDD0r6B5Kn1fcNaTMg7tARe7TdEDqQ*26m*3DwaSKY67JF57IZXg30ysFB_R7OG9zoQwFwxyps6FbTa1Zh5mttxRot_t4N7mn68Pj*26s*3DAo9QQWtO62go0hx1tb3NU6xw2FNBadjj8q64-hl5Sx4*26e*3D&data=04*7C01*7Ctgd*40oregonstate.edu*7C3db6ca275cc748415eaa08d9e732a318*7Cce6d05e13c5e4d6287a84c4a2713c113*7C0*7C0*7C637795026944990348*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C3000&sdata=gRfN5WuMr4*2BLwZMRqPOPaTJ97VoUB*2FVRMELwu5lQeiU*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJQ!!IKRxdwAv5BmarQ!IcLaVAupTYedSuWIPJGuIdRdOzEq4sib8fyufCCcC5bvaoUXwfrn-27dvH_NVZ8$>
>
>
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.proofpoint.com*2Fv2*2Furl*3Fu*3Dhttps-3A__www.avast.com_sig-2Demail-3Futm-5Fmedium-3Demail-26utm-5Fsource-3Dlink-26utm-5Fcampaign-3Dsig-2Demail-26utm-5Fcontent-3Dwebmail*26d*3DDwMFaQ*26c*3DslrrB7dE8n7gBJbeO0g-IQ*26r*3DwQR1NePCSj6dOGDD0r6B5Kn1fcNaTMg7tARe7TdEDqQ*26m*3DwaSKY67JF57IZXg30ysFB_R7OG9zoQwFwxyps6FbTa1Zh5mttxRot_t4N7mn68Pj*26s*3DAo9QQWtO62go0hx1tb3NU6xw2FNBadjj8q64-hl5Sx4*26e*3D&data=04*7C01*7Ctgd*40oregonstate.edu*7C3db6ca275cc748415eaa08d9e732a318*7Cce6d05e13c5e4d6287a84c4a2713c113*7C0*7C0*7C637795026944990348*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C3000&sdata=gRfN5WuMr4*2BLwZMRqPOPaTJ97VoUB*2FVRMELwu5lQeiU*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJQ!!IKRxdwAv5BmarQ!IcLaVAupTYedSuWIPJGuIdRdOzEq4sib8fyufCCcC5bvaoUXwfrn-27dvH_NVZ8$>
>
> Notably absent from your email is any kind of apology for misrepresenting
> my position. It’s fine to say that “many people thirty years ago once
> thought X” and another to say “Gary Marcus said X in 2015”, when I didn’t.
> I have consistently felt throughout our interactions that you have mistaken
> me for Zenon Pylyshyn; indeed, you once (at NeurIPS 2014) apologized to me
> for having made that error. I am still not he.
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.proofpoint.com*2Fv2*2Furl*3Fu*3Dhttps-3A__www.avast.com_sig-2Demail-3Futm-5Fmedium-3Demail-26utm-5Fsource-3Dlink-26utm-5Fcampaign-3Dsig-2Demail-26utm-5Fcontent-3Dwebmail*26d*3DDwMFaQ*26c*3DslrrB7dE8n7gBJbeO0g-IQ*26r*3DwQR1NePCSj6dOGDD0r6B5Kn1fcNaTMg7tARe7TdEDqQ*26m*3DwaSKY67JF57IZXg30ysFB_R7OG9zoQwFwxyps6FbTa1Zh5mttxRot_t4N7mn68Pj*26s*3DAo9QQWtO62go0hx1tb3NU6xw2FNBadjj8q64-hl5Sx4*26e*3D&data=04*7C01*7Ctgd*40oregonstate.edu*7C3db6ca275cc748415eaa08d9e732a318*7Cce6d05e13c5e4d6287a84c4a2713c113*7C0*7C0*7C637795026944990348*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C3000&sdata=gRfN5WuMr4*2BLwZMRqPOPaTJ97VoUB*2FVRMELwu5lQeiU*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJQ!!IKRxdwAv5BmarQ!IcLaVAupTYedSuWIPJGuIdRdOzEq4sib8fyufCCcC5bvaoUXwfrn-27dvH_NVZ8$>
>
>
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.proofpoint.com*2Fv2*2Furl*3Fu*3Dhttps-3A__www.avast.com_sig-2Demail-3Futm-5Fmedium-3Demail-26utm-5Fsource-3Dlink-26utm-5Fcampaign-3Dsig-2Demail-26utm-5Fcontent-3Dwebmail*26d*3DDwMFaQ*26c*3DslrrB7dE8n7gBJbeO0g-IQ*26r*3DwQR1NePCSj6dOGDD0r6B5Kn1fcNaTMg7tARe7TdEDqQ*26m*3DwaSKY67JF57IZXg30ysFB_R7OG9zoQwFwxyps6FbTa1Zh5mttxRot_t4N7mn68Pj*26s*3DAo9QQWtO62go0hx1tb3NU6xw2FNBadjj8q64-hl5Sx4*26e*3D&data=04*7C01*7Ctgd*40oregonstate.edu*7C3db6ca275cc748415eaa08d9e732a318*7Cce6d05e13c5e4d6287a84c4a2713c113*7C0*7C0*7C637795026944990348*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C3000&sdata=gRfN5WuMr4*2BLwZMRqPOPaTJ97VoUB*2FVRMELwu5lQeiU*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJQ!!IKRxdwAv5BmarQ!IcLaVAupTYedSuWIPJGuIdRdOzEq4sib8fyufCCcC5bvaoUXwfrn-27dvH_NVZ8$>
>
> Which maybe connects to the last point; if you read my work, you would see
> thirty years of arguments *for* neural networks, just not in the way that
> you want them to exist. I have ALWAYS argued that there is a role for them;
>  characterizing me as a person “strongly opposed to neural networks” misses
> the whole point of my 2001 book, which was subtitled “Integrating
> Connectionism and Cognitive Science.”
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.proofpoint.com*2Fv2*2Furl*3Fu*3Dhttps-3A__www.avast.com_sig-2Demail-3Futm-5Fmedium-3Demail-26utm-5Fsource-3Dlink-26utm-5Fcampaign-3Dsig-2Demail-26utm-5Fcontent-3Dwebmail*26d*3DDwMFaQ*26c*3DslrrB7dE8n7gBJbeO0g-IQ*26r*3DwQR1NePCSj6dOGDD0r6B5Kn1fcNaTMg7tARe7TdEDqQ*26m*3DwaSKY67JF57IZXg30ysFB_R7OG9zoQwFwxyps6FbTa1Zh5mttxRot_t4N7mn68Pj*26s*3DAo9QQWtO62go0hx1tb3NU6xw2FNBadjj8q64-hl5Sx4*26e*3D&data=04*7C01*7Ctgd*40oregonstate.edu*7C3db6ca275cc748415eaa08d9e732a318*7Cce6d05e13c5e4d6287a84c4a2713c113*7C0*7C0*7C637795026944990348*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C3000&sdata=gRfN5WuMr4*2BLwZMRqPOPaTJ97VoUB*2FVRMELwu5lQeiU*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJQ!!IKRxdwAv5BmarQ!IcLaVAupTYedSuWIPJGuIdRdOzEq4sib8fyufCCcC5bvaoUXwfrn-27dvH_NVZ8$>
>
>
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.proofpoint.com*2Fv2*2Furl*3Fu*3Dhttps-3A__www.avast.com_sig-2Demail-3Futm-5Fmedium-3Demail-26utm-5Fsource-3Dlink-26utm-5Fcampaign-3Dsig-2Demail-26utm-5Fcontent-3Dwebmail*26d*3DDwMFaQ*26c*3DslrrB7dE8n7gBJbeO0g-IQ*26r*3DwQR1NePCSj6dOGDD0r6B5Kn1fcNaTMg7tARe7TdEDqQ*26m*3DwaSKY67JF57IZXg30ysFB_R7OG9zoQwFwxyps6FbTa1Zh5mttxRot_t4N7mn68Pj*26s*3DAo9QQWtO62go0hx1tb3NU6xw2FNBadjj8q64-hl5Sx4*26e*3D&data=04*7C01*7Ctgd*40oregonstate.edu*7C3db6ca275cc748415eaa08d9e732a318*7Cce6d05e13c5e4d6287a84c4a2713c113*7C0*7C0*7C637795026944990348*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C3000&sdata=gRfN5WuMr4*2BLwZMRqPOPaTJ97VoUB*2FVRMELwu5lQeiU*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJQ!!IKRxdwAv5BmarQ!IcLaVAupTYedSuWIPJGuIdRdOzEq4sib8fyufCCcC5bvaoUXwfrn-27dvH_NVZ8$>
>
> In the last two decades or so you have insisted (for reasons you have
> never fully clarified, so far as I know) on abandoning symbol-manipulation,
> but the reverse is not the case: I have *never* called for dismissal of
> neural networks, but rather for some hybrid between the two (as you
> yourself contemplated in 1991); the point of the 2001 book was to
> characterize exactly where multilayer perceptrons succeeded and broke down,
> and where symbols could complement them. It’s a rhetorical trick (which is
> what the previous thread was about) to pretend otherwise.
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.proofpoint.com*2Fv2*2Furl*3Fu*3Dhttps-3A__www.avast.com_sig-2Demail-3Futm-5Fmedium-3Demail-26utm-5Fsource-3Dlink-26utm-5Fcampaign-3Dsig-2Demail-26utm-5Fcontent-3Dwebmail*26d*3DDwMFaQ*26c*3DslrrB7dE8n7gBJbeO0g-IQ*26r*3DwQR1NePCSj6dOGDD0r6B5Kn1fcNaTMg7tARe7TdEDqQ*26m*3DwaSKY67JF57IZXg30ysFB_R7OG9zoQwFwxyps6FbTa1Zh5mttxRot_t4N7mn68Pj*26s*3DAo9QQWtO62go0hx1tb3NU6xw2FNBadjj8q64-hl5Sx4*26e*3D&data=04*7C01*7Ctgd*40oregonstate.edu*7C3db6ca275cc748415eaa08d9e732a318*7Cce6d05e13c5e4d6287a84c4a2713c113*7C0*7C0*7C637795026944990348*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C3000&sdata=gRfN5WuMr4*2BLwZMRqPOPaTJ97VoUB*2FVRMELwu5lQeiU*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJQ!!IKRxdwAv5BmarQ!IcLaVAupTYedSuWIPJGuIdRdOzEq4sib8fyufCCcC5bvaoUXwfrn-27dvH_NVZ8$>
>
>
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.proofpoint.com*2Fv2*2Furl*3Fu*3Dhttps-3A__www.avast.com_sig-2Demail-3Futm-5Fmedium-3Demail-26utm-5Fsource-3Dlink-26utm-5Fcampaign-3Dsig-2Demail-26utm-5Fcontent-3Dwebmail*26d*3DDwMFaQ*26c*3DslrrB7dE8n7gBJbeO0g-IQ*26r*3DwQR1NePCSj6dOGDD0r6B5Kn1fcNaTMg7tARe7TdEDqQ*26m*3DwaSKY67JF57IZXg30ysFB_R7OG9zoQwFwxyps6FbTa1Zh5mttxRot_t4N7mn68Pj*26s*3DAo9QQWtO62go0hx1tb3NU6xw2FNBadjj8q64-hl5Sx4*26e*3D&data=04*7C01*7Ctgd*40oregonstate.edu*7C3db6ca275cc748415eaa08d9e732a318*7Cce6d05e13c5e4d6287a84c4a2713c113*7C0*7C0*7C637795026944990348*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C3000&sdata=gRfN5WuMr4*2BLwZMRqPOPaTJ97VoUB*2FVRMELwu5lQeiU*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJQ!!IKRxdwAv5BmarQ!IcLaVAupTYedSuWIPJGuIdRdOzEq4sib8fyufCCcC5bvaoUXwfrn-27dvH_NVZ8$>
>
> Gary
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.proofpoint.com*2Fv2*2Furl*3Fu*3Dhttps-3A__www.avast.com_sig-2Demail-3Futm-5Fmedium-3Demail-26utm-5Fsource-3Dlink-26utm-5Fcampaign-3Dsig-2Demail-26utm-5Fcontent-3Dwebmail*26d*3DDwMFaQ*26c*3DslrrB7dE8n7gBJbeO0g-IQ*26r*3DwQR1NePCSj6dOGDD0r6B5Kn1fcNaTMg7tARe7TdEDqQ*26m*3DwaSKY67JF57IZXg30ysFB_R7OG9zoQwFwxyps6FbTa1Zh5mttxRot_t4N7mn68Pj*26s*3DAo9QQWtO62go0hx1tb3NU6xw2FNBadjj8q64-hl5Sx4*26e*3D&data=04*7C01*7Ctgd*40oregonstate.edu*7C3db6ca275cc748415eaa08d9e732a318*7Cce6d05e13c5e4d6287a84c4a2713c113*7C0*7C0*7C637795026944990348*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C3000&sdata=gRfN5WuMr4*2BLwZMRqPOPaTJ97VoUB*2FVRMELwu5lQeiU*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJQ!!IKRxdwAv5BmarQ!IcLaVAupTYedSuWIPJGuIdRdOzEq4sib8fyufCCcC5bvaoUXwfrn-27dvH_NVZ8$>
>
>
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.proofpoint.com*2Fv2*2Furl*3Fu*3Dhttps-3A__www.avast.com_sig-2Demail-3Futm-5Fmedium-3Demail-26utm-5Fsource-3Dlink-26utm-5Fcampaign-3Dsig-2Demail-26utm-5Fcontent-3Dwebmail*26d*3DDwMFaQ*26c*3DslrrB7dE8n7gBJbeO0g-IQ*26r*3DwQR1NePCSj6dOGDD0r6B5Kn1fcNaTMg7tARe7TdEDqQ*26m*3DwaSKY67JF57IZXg30ysFB_R7OG9zoQwFwxyps6FbTa1Zh5mttxRot_t4N7mn68Pj*26s*3DAo9QQWtO62go0hx1tb3NU6xw2FNBadjj8q64-hl5Sx4*26e*3D&data=04*7C01*7Ctgd*40oregonstate.edu*7C3db6ca275cc748415eaa08d9e732a318*7Cce6d05e13c5e4d6287a84c4a2713c113*7C0*7C0*7C637795026944990348*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C3000&sdata=gRfN5WuMr4*2BLwZMRqPOPaTJ97VoUB*2FVRMELwu5lQeiU*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJQ!!IKRxdwAv5BmarQ!IcLaVAupTYedSuWIPJGuIdRdOzEq4sib8fyufCCcC5bvaoUXwfrn-27dvH_NVZ8$>
>
>
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.proofpoint.com*2Fv2*2Furl*3Fu*3Dhttps-3A__www.avast.com_sig-2Demail-3Futm-5Fmedium-3Demail-26utm-5Fsource-3Dlink-26utm-5Fcampaign-3Dsig-2Demail-26utm-5Fcontent-3Dwebmail*26d*3DDwMFaQ*26c*3DslrrB7dE8n7gBJbeO0g-IQ*26r*3DwQR1NePCSj6dOGDD0r6B5Kn1fcNaTMg7tARe7TdEDqQ*26m*3DwaSKY67JF57IZXg30ysFB_R7OG9zoQwFwxyps6FbTa1Zh5mttxRot_t4N7mn68Pj*26s*3DAo9QQWtO62go0hx1tb3NU6xw2FNBadjj8q64-hl5Sx4*26e*3D&data=04*7C01*7Ctgd*40oregonstate.edu*7C3db6ca275cc748415eaa08d9e732a318*7Cce6d05e13c5e4d6287a84c4a2713c113*7C0*7C0*7C637795026944990348*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C3000&sdata=gRfN5WuMr4*2BLwZMRqPOPaTJ97VoUB*2FVRMELwu5lQeiU*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJQ!!IKRxdwAv5BmarQ!IcLaVAupTYedSuWIPJGuIdRdOzEq4sib8fyufCCcC5bvaoUXwfrn-27dvH_NVZ8$>
>
> On Feb 2, 2022, at 11:22, Geoffrey Hinton <*geoffrey.hinton at gmail.com*>
> wrote:
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.proofpoint.com*2Fv2*2Furl*3Fu*3Dhttps-3A__www.avast.com_sig-2Demail-3Futm-5Fmedium-3Demail-26utm-5Fsource-3Dlink-26utm-5Fcampaign-3Dsig-2Demail-26utm-5Fcontent-3Dwebmail*26d*3DDwMFaQ*26c*3DslrrB7dE8n7gBJbeO0g-IQ*26r*3DwQR1NePCSj6dOGDD0r6B5Kn1fcNaTMg7tARe7TdEDqQ*26m*3DwaSKY67JF57IZXg30ysFB_R7OG9zoQwFwxyps6FbTa1Zh5mttxRot_t4N7mn68Pj*26s*3DAo9QQWtO62go0hx1tb3NU6xw2FNBadjj8q64-hl5Sx4*26e*3D&data=04*7C01*7Ctgd*40oregonstate.edu*7C3db6ca275cc748415eaa08d9e732a318*7Cce6d05e13c5e4d6287a84c4a2713c113*7C0*7C0*7C637795026944990348*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C3000&sdata=gRfN5WuMr4*2BLwZMRqPOPaTJ97VoUB*2FVRMELwu5lQeiU*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJQ!!IKRxdwAv5BmarQ!IcLaVAupTYedSuWIPJGuIdRdOzEq4sib8fyufCCcC5bvaoUXwfrn-27dvH_NVZ8$>
>
> 
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.proofpoint.com*2Fv2*2Furl*3Fu*3Dhttps-3A__www.avast.com_sig-2Demail-3Futm-5Fmedium-3Demail-26utm-5Fsource-3Dlink-26utm-5Fcampaign-3Dsig-2Demail-26utm-5Fcontent-3Dwebmail*26d*3DDwMFaQ*26c*3DslrrB7dE8n7gBJbeO0g-IQ*26r*3DwQR1NePCSj6dOGDD0r6B5Kn1fcNaTMg7tARe7TdEDqQ*26m*3DwaSKY67JF57IZXg30ysFB_R7OG9zoQwFwxyps6FbTa1Zh5mttxRot_t4N7mn68Pj*26s*3DAo9QQWtO62go0hx1tb3NU6xw2FNBadjj8q64-hl5Sx4*26e*3D&data=04*7C01*7Ctgd*40oregonstate.edu*7C3db6ca275cc748415eaa08d9e732a318*7Cce6d05e13c5e4d6287a84c4a2713c113*7C0*7C0*7C637795026944990348*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C3000&sdata=gRfN5WuMr4*2BLwZMRqPOPaTJ97VoUB*2FVRMELwu5lQeiU*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJQ!!IKRxdwAv5BmarQ!IcLaVAupTYedSuWIPJGuIdRdOzEq4sib8fyufCCcC5bvaoUXwfrn-27dvH_NVZ8$>
>
> Embeddings are just vectors of soft feature detectors and they are very
> good for NLP.  The quote on my webpage from Gary's 2015 chapter implies the
> opposite.
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.proofpoint.com*2Fv2*2Furl*3Fu*3Dhttps-3A__www.avast.com_sig-2Demail-3Futm-5Fmedium-3Demail-26utm-5Fsource-3Dlink-26utm-5Fcampaign-3Dsig-2Demail-26utm-5Fcontent-3Dwebmail*26d*3DDwMFaQ*26c*3DslrrB7dE8n7gBJbeO0g-IQ*26r*3DwQR1NePCSj6dOGDD0r6B5Kn1fcNaTMg7tARe7TdEDqQ*26m*3DwaSKY67JF57IZXg30ysFB_R7OG9zoQwFwxyps6FbTa1Zh5mttxRot_t4N7mn68Pj*26s*3DAo9QQWtO62go0hx1tb3NU6xw2FNBadjj8q64-hl5Sx4*26e*3D&data=04*7C01*7Ctgd*40oregonstate.edu*7C3db6ca275cc748415eaa08d9e732a318*7Cce6d05e13c5e4d6287a84c4a2713c113*7C0*7C0*7C637795026944990348*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C3000&sdata=gRfN5WuMr4*2BLwZMRqPOPaTJ97VoUB*2FVRMELwu5lQeiU*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJQ!!IKRxdwAv5BmarQ!IcLaVAupTYedSuWIPJGuIdRdOzEq4sib8fyufCCcC5bvaoUXwfrn-27dvH_NVZ8$>
>
>
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.proofpoint.com*2Fv2*2Furl*3Fu*3Dhttps-3A__www.avast.com_sig-2Demail-3Futm-5Fmedium-3Demail-26utm-5Fsource-3Dlink-26utm-5Fcampaign-3Dsig-2Demail-26utm-5Fcontent-3Dwebmail*26d*3DDwMFaQ*26c*3DslrrB7dE8n7gBJbeO0g-IQ*26r*3DwQR1NePCSj6dOGDD0r6B5Kn1fcNaTMg7tARe7TdEDqQ*26m*3DwaSKY67JF57IZXg30ysFB_R7OG9zoQwFwxyps6FbTa1Zh5mttxRot_t4N7mn68Pj*26s*3DAo9QQWtO62go0hx1tb3NU6xw2FNBadjj8q64-hl5Sx4*26e*3D&data=04*7C01*7Ctgd*40oregonstate.edu*7C3db6ca275cc748415eaa08d9e732a318*7Cce6d05e13c5e4d6287a84c4a2713c113*7C0*7C0*7C637795026944990348*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C3000&sdata=gRfN5WuMr4*2BLwZMRqPOPaTJ97VoUB*2FVRMELwu5lQeiU*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJQ!!IKRxdwAv5BmarQ!IcLaVAupTYedSuWIPJGuIdRdOzEq4sib8fyufCCcC5bvaoUXwfrn-27dvH_NVZ8$>
>
> A few decades ago, everyone I knew then would have agreed that the ability
> to translate a sentence into many different languages was strong evidence
> that you understood it.
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.proofpoint.com*2Fv2*2Furl*3Fu*3Dhttps-3A__www.avast.com_sig-2Demail-3Futm-5Fmedium-3Demail-26utm-5Fsource-3Dlink-26utm-5Fcampaign-3Dsig-2Demail-26utm-5Fcontent-3Dwebmail*26d*3DDwMFaQ*26c*3DslrrB7dE8n7gBJbeO0g-IQ*26r*3DwQR1NePCSj6dOGDD0r6B5Kn1fcNaTMg7tARe7TdEDqQ*26m*3DwaSKY67JF57IZXg30ysFB_R7OG9zoQwFwxyps6FbTa1Zh5mttxRot_t4N7mn68Pj*26s*3DAo9QQWtO62go0hx1tb3NU6xw2FNBadjj8q64-hl5Sx4*26e*3D&data=04*7C01*7Ctgd*40oregonstate.edu*7C3db6ca275cc748415eaa08d9e732a318*7Cce6d05e13c5e4d6287a84c4a2713c113*7C0*7C0*7C637795026944990348*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C3000&sdata=gRfN5WuMr4*2BLwZMRqPOPaTJ97VoUB*2FVRMELwu5lQeiU*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJQ!!IKRxdwAv5BmarQ!IcLaVAupTYedSuWIPJGuIdRdOzEq4sib8fyufCCcC5bvaoUXwfrn-27dvH_NVZ8$>
>
>
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.proofpoint.com*2Fv2*2Furl*3Fu*3Dhttps-3A__www.avast.com_sig-2Demail-3Futm-5Fmedium-3Demail-26utm-5Fsource-3Dlink-26utm-5Fcampaign-3Dsig-2Demail-26utm-5Fcontent-3Dwebmail*26d*3DDwMFaQ*26c*3DslrrB7dE8n7gBJbeO0g-IQ*26r*3DwQR1NePCSj6dOGDD0r6B5Kn1fcNaTMg7tARe7TdEDqQ*26m*3DwaSKY67JF57IZXg30ysFB_R7OG9zoQwFwxyps6FbTa1Zh5mttxRot_t4N7mn68Pj*26s*3DAo9QQWtO62go0hx1tb3NU6xw2FNBadjj8q64-hl5Sx4*26e*3D&data=04*7C01*7Ctgd*40oregonstate.edu*7C3db6ca275cc748415eaa08d9e732a318*7Cce6d05e13c5e4d6287a84c4a2713c113*7C0*7C0*7C637795026944990348*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C3000&sdata=gRfN5WuMr4*2BLwZMRqPOPaTJ97VoUB*2FVRMELwu5lQeiU*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJQ!!IKRxdwAv5BmarQ!IcLaVAupTYedSuWIPJGuIdRdOzEq4sib8fyufCCcC5bvaoUXwfrn-27dvH_NVZ8$>
>
> But once neural networks could do that, their critics moved the goalposts.
> An exception is Hector Levesque who defined the goalposts more sharply by
> saying that the ability to get pronoun references correct in Winograd
> sentences is a crucial test. Neural nets are improving at that but still
> have some way to go. Will Gary agree that when they can get pronoun
> references correct in Winograd sentences they really do understand? Or does
> he want to reserve the right to weasel out of that too?
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.proofpoint.com*2Fv2*2Furl*3Fu*3Dhttps-3A__www.avast.com_sig-2Demail-3Futm-5Fmedium-3Demail-26utm-5Fsource-3Dlink-26utm-5Fcampaign-3Dsig-2Demail-26utm-5Fcontent-3Dwebmail*26d*3DDwMFaQ*26c*3DslrrB7dE8n7gBJbeO0g-IQ*26r*3DwQR1NePCSj6dOGDD0r6B5Kn1fcNaTMg7tARe7TdEDqQ*26m*3DwaSKY67JF57IZXg30ysFB_R7OG9zoQwFwxyps6FbTa1Zh5mttxRot_t4N7mn68Pj*26s*3DAo9QQWtO62go0hx1tb3NU6xw2FNBadjj8q64-hl5Sx4*26e*3D&data=04*7C01*7Ctgd*40oregonstate.edu*7C3db6ca275cc748415eaa08d9e732a318*7Cce6d05e13c5e4d6287a84c4a2713c113*7C0*7C0*7C637795026944990348*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C3000&sdata=gRfN5WuMr4*2BLwZMRqPOPaTJ97VoUB*2FVRMELwu5lQeiU*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJQ!!IKRxdwAv5BmarQ!IcLaVAupTYedSuWIPJGuIdRdOzEq4sib8fyufCCcC5bvaoUXwfrn-27dvH_NVZ8$>
>
>
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.proofpoint.com*2Fv2*2Furl*3Fu*3Dhttps-3A__www.avast.com_sig-2Demail-3Futm-5Fmedium-3Demail-26utm-5Fsource-3Dlink-26utm-5Fcampaign-3Dsig-2Demail-26utm-5Fcontent-3Dwebmail*26d*3DDwMFaQ*26c*3DslrrB7dE8n7gBJbeO0g-IQ*26r*3DwQR1NePCSj6dOGDD0r6B5Kn1fcNaTMg7tARe7TdEDqQ*26m*3DwaSKY67JF57IZXg30ysFB_R7OG9zoQwFwxyps6FbTa1Zh5mttxRot_t4N7mn68Pj*26s*3DAo9QQWtO62go0hx1tb3NU6xw2FNBadjj8q64-hl5Sx4*26e*3D&data=04*7C01*7Ctgd*40oregonstate.edu*7C3db6ca275cc748415eaa08d9e732a318*7Cce6d05e13c5e4d6287a84c4a2713c113*7C0*7C0*7C637795026944990348*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C3000&sdata=gRfN5WuMr4*2BLwZMRqPOPaTJ97VoUB*2FVRMELwu5lQeiU*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJQ!!IKRxdwAv5BmarQ!IcLaVAupTYedSuWIPJGuIdRdOzEq4sib8fyufCCcC5bvaoUXwfrn-27dvH_NVZ8$>
>
> Some people, like Gary, appear to be strongly opposed to neural networks
> because they do not fit their preconceived notions of how the mind should
> work.
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.proofpoint.com*2Fv2*2Furl*3Fu*3Dhttps-3A__www.avast.com_sig-2Demail-3Futm-5Fmedium-3Demail-26utm-5Fsource-3Dlink-26utm-5Fcampaign-3Dsig-2Demail-26utm-5Fcontent-3Dwebmail*26d*3DDwMFaQ*26c*3DslrrB7dE8n7gBJbeO0g-IQ*26r*3DwQR1NePCSj6dOGDD0r6B5Kn1fcNaTMg7tARe7TdEDqQ*26m*3DwaSKY67JF57IZXg30ysFB_R7OG9zoQwFwxyps6FbTa1Zh5mttxRot_t4N7mn68Pj*26s*3DAo9QQWtO62go0hx1tb3NU6xw2FNBadjj8q64-hl5Sx4*26e*3D&data=04*7C01*7Ctgd*40oregonstate.edu*7C3db6ca275cc748415eaa08d9e732a318*7Cce6d05e13c5e4d6287a84c4a2713c113*7C0*7C0*7C637795026944990348*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C3000&sdata=gRfN5WuMr4*2BLwZMRqPOPaTJ97VoUB*2FVRMELwu5lQeiU*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJQ!!IKRxdwAv5BmarQ!IcLaVAupTYedSuWIPJGuIdRdOzEq4sib8fyufCCcC5bvaoUXwfrn-27dvH_NVZ8$>
>
> I believe that any reasonable person would admit that if you ask a neural
> net to draw a picture of a hamster wearing a red hat and it draws such a
> picture, it understood the request.
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.proofpoint.com*2Fv2*2Furl*3Fu*3Dhttps-3A__www.avast.com_sig-2Demail-3Futm-5Fmedium-3Demail-26utm-5Fsource-3Dlink-26utm-5Fcampaign-3Dsig-2Demail-26utm-5Fcontent-3Dwebmail*26d*3DDwMFaQ*26c*3DslrrB7dE8n7gBJbeO0g-IQ*26r*3DwQR1NePCSj6dOGDD0r6B5Kn1fcNaTMg7tARe7TdEDqQ*26m*3DwaSKY67JF57IZXg30ysFB_R7OG9zoQwFwxyps6FbTa1Zh5mttxRot_t4N7mn68Pj*26s*3DAo9QQWtO62go0hx1tb3NU6xw2FNBadjj8q64-hl5Sx4*26e*3D&data=04*7C01*7Ctgd*40oregonstate.edu*7C3db6ca275cc748415eaa08d9e732a318*7Cce6d05e13c5e4d6287a84c4a2713c113*7C0*7C0*7C637795026944990348*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C3000&sdata=gRfN5WuMr4*2BLwZMRqPOPaTJ97VoUB*2FVRMELwu5lQeiU*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJQ!!IKRxdwAv5BmarQ!IcLaVAupTYedSuWIPJGuIdRdOzEq4sib8fyufCCcC5bvaoUXwfrn-27dvH_NVZ8$>
>
>
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.proofpoint.com*2Fv2*2Furl*3Fu*3Dhttps-3A__www.avast.com_sig-2Demail-3Futm-5Fmedium-3Demail-26utm-5Fsource-3Dlink-26utm-5Fcampaign-3Dsig-2Demail-26utm-5Fcontent-3Dwebmail*26d*3DDwMFaQ*26c*3DslrrB7dE8n7gBJbeO0g-IQ*26r*3DwQR1NePCSj6dOGDD0r6B5Kn1fcNaTMg7tARe7TdEDqQ*26m*3DwaSKY67JF57IZXg30ysFB_R7OG9zoQwFwxyps6FbTa1Zh5mttxRot_t4N7mn68Pj*26s*3DAo9QQWtO62go0hx1tb3NU6xw2FNBadjj8q64-hl5Sx4*26e*3D&data=04*7C01*7Ctgd*40oregonstate.edu*7C3db6ca275cc748415eaa08d9e732a318*7Cce6d05e13c5e4d6287a84c4a2713c113*7C0*7C0*7C637795026944990348*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C3000&sdata=gRfN5WuMr4*2BLwZMRqPOPaTJ97VoUB*2FVRMELwu5lQeiU*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJQ!!IKRxdwAv5BmarQ!IcLaVAupTYedSuWIPJGuIdRdOzEq4sib8fyufCCcC5bvaoUXwfrn-27dvH_NVZ8$>
>
> Geoff
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.proofpoint.com*2Fv2*2Furl*3Fu*3Dhttps-3A__www.avast.com_sig-2Demail-3Futm-5Fmedium-3Demail-26utm-5Fsource-3Dlink-26utm-5Fcampaign-3Dsig-2Demail-26utm-5Fcontent-3Dwebmail*26d*3DDwMFaQ*26c*3DslrrB7dE8n7gBJbeO0g-IQ*26r*3DwQR1NePCSj6dOGDD0r6B5Kn1fcNaTMg7tARe7TdEDqQ*26m*3DwaSKY67JF57IZXg30ysFB_R7OG9zoQwFwxyps6FbTa1Zh5mttxRot_t4N7mn68Pj*26s*3DAo9QQWtO62go0hx1tb3NU6xw2FNBadjj8q64-hl5Sx4*26e*3D&data=04*7C01*7Ctgd*40oregonstate.edu*7C3db6ca275cc748415eaa08d9e732a318*7Cce6d05e13c5e4d6287a84c4a2713c113*7C0*7C0*7C637795026944990348*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C3000&sdata=gRfN5WuMr4*2BLwZMRqPOPaTJ97VoUB*2FVRMELwu5lQeiU*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJQ!!IKRxdwAv5BmarQ!IcLaVAupTYedSuWIPJGuIdRdOzEq4sib8fyufCCcC5bvaoUXwfrn-27dvH_NVZ8$>
>
>
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>
>
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.proofpoint.com*2Fv2*2Furl*3Fu*3Dhttps-3A__www.avast.com_sig-2Demail-3Futm-5Fmedium-3Demail-26utm-5Fsource-3Dlink-26utm-5Fcampaign-3Dsig-2Demail-26utm-5Fcontent-3Dwebmail*26d*3DDwMFaQ*26c*3DslrrB7dE8n7gBJbeO0g-IQ*26r*3DwQR1NePCSj6dOGDD0r6B5Kn1fcNaTMg7tARe7TdEDqQ*26m*3DwaSKY67JF57IZXg30ysFB_R7OG9zoQwFwxyps6FbTa1Zh5mttxRot_t4N7mn68Pj*26s*3DAo9QQWtO62go0hx1tb3NU6xw2FNBadjj8q64-hl5Sx4*26e*3D&data=04*7C01*7Ctgd*40oregonstate.edu*7C3db6ca275cc748415eaa08d9e732a318*7Cce6d05e13c5e4d6287a84c4a2713c113*7C0*7C0*7C637795026944990348*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C3000&sdata=gRfN5WuMr4*2BLwZMRqPOPaTJ97VoUB*2FVRMELwu5lQeiU*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJQ!!IKRxdwAv5BmarQ!IcLaVAupTYedSuWIPJGuIdRdOzEq4sib8fyufCCcC5bvaoUXwfrn-27dvH_NVZ8$>
>
> On Wed, Feb 2, 2022 at 1:38 PM Gary Marcus <*gary.marcus at nyu.edu*> wrote:
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.proofpoint.com*2Fv2*2Furl*3Fu*3Dhttps-3A__www.avast.com_sig-2Demail-3Futm-5Fmedium-3Demail-26utm-5Fsource-3Dlink-26utm-5Fcampaign-3Dsig-2Demail-26utm-5Fcontent-3Dwebmail*26d*3DDwMFaQ*26c*3DslrrB7dE8n7gBJbeO0g-IQ*26r*3DwQR1NePCSj6dOGDD0r6B5Kn1fcNaTMg7tARe7TdEDqQ*26m*3DwaSKY67JF57IZXg30ysFB_R7OG9zoQwFwxyps6FbTa1Zh5mttxRot_t4N7mn68Pj*26s*3DAo9QQWtO62go0hx1tb3NU6xw2FNBadjj8q64-hl5Sx4*26e*3D&data=04*7C01*7Ctgd*40oregonstate.edu*7C3db6ca275cc748415eaa08d9e732a318*7Cce6d05e13c5e4d6287a84c4a2713c113*7C0*7C0*7C637795026944990348*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C3000&sdata=gRfN5WuMr4*2BLwZMRqPOPaTJ97VoUB*2FVRMELwu5lQeiU*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJQ!!IKRxdwAv5BmarQ!IcLaVAupTYedSuWIPJGuIdRdOzEq4sib8fyufCCcC5bvaoUXwfrn-27dvH_NVZ8$>
>
> Dear AI Hub, cc: Steven Hanson and Geoffrey Hinton, and the larger neural
> network community,
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.proofpoint.com*2Fv2*2Furl*3Fu*3Dhttps-3A__www.avast.com_sig-2Demail-3Futm-5Fmedium-3Demail-26utm-5Fsource-3Dlink-26utm-5Fcampaign-3Dsig-2Demail-26utm-5Fcontent-3Dwebmail*26d*3DDwMFaQ*26c*3DslrrB7dE8n7gBJbeO0g-IQ*26r*3DwQR1NePCSj6dOGDD0r6B5Kn1fcNaTMg7tARe7TdEDqQ*26m*3DwaSKY67JF57IZXg30ysFB_R7OG9zoQwFwxyps6FbTa1Zh5mttxRot_t4N7mn68Pj*26s*3DAo9QQWtO62go0hx1tb3NU6xw2FNBadjj8q64-hl5Sx4*26e*3D&data=04*7C01*7Ctgd*40oregonstate.edu*7C3db6ca275cc748415eaa08d9e732a318*7Cce6d05e13c5e4d6287a84c4a2713c113*7C0*7C0*7C637795026944990348*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C3000&sdata=gRfN5WuMr4*2BLwZMRqPOPaTJ97VoUB*2FVRMELwu5lQeiU*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJQ!!IKRxdwAv5BmarQ!IcLaVAupTYedSuWIPJGuIdRdOzEq4sib8fyufCCcC5bvaoUXwfrn-27dvH_NVZ8$>
>
>
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.proofpoint.com*2Fv2*2Furl*3Fu*3Dhttps-3A__www.avast.com_sig-2Demail-3Futm-5Fmedium-3Demail-26utm-5Fsource-3Dlink-26utm-5Fcampaign-3Dsig-2Demail-26utm-5Fcontent-3Dwebmail*26d*3DDwMFaQ*26c*3DslrrB7dE8n7gBJbeO0g-IQ*26r*3DwQR1NePCSj6dOGDD0r6B5Kn1fcNaTMg7tARe7TdEDqQ*26m*3DwaSKY67JF57IZXg30ysFB_R7OG9zoQwFwxyps6FbTa1Zh5mttxRot_t4N7mn68Pj*26s*3DAo9QQWtO62go0hx1tb3NU6xw2FNBadjj8q64-hl5Sx4*26e*3D&data=04*7C01*7Ctgd*40oregonstate.edu*7C3db6ca275cc748415eaa08d9e732a318*7Cce6d05e13c5e4d6287a84c4a2713c113*7C0*7C0*7C637795026944990348*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C3000&sdata=gRfN5WuMr4*2BLwZMRqPOPaTJ97VoUB*2FVRMELwu5lQeiU*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJQ!!IKRxdwAv5BmarQ!IcLaVAupTYedSuWIPJGuIdRdOzEq4sib8fyufCCcC5bvaoUXwfrn-27dvH_NVZ8$>
>
> There has been a lot of recent discussion on this list about framing and
> scientific integrity. Often the first step in restructuring narratives is
> to bully and dehumanize critics. The second is to misrepresent their
> position. People in positions of power are sometimes tempted to do this.
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.proofpoint.com*2Fv2*2Furl*3Fu*3Dhttps-3A__www.avast.com_sig-2Demail-3Futm-5Fmedium-3Demail-26utm-5Fsource-3Dlink-26utm-5Fcampaign-3Dsig-2Demail-26utm-5Fcontent-3Dwebmail*26d*3DDwMFaQ*26c*3DslrrB7dE8n7gBJbeO0g-IQ*26r*3DwQR1NePCSj6dOGDD0r6B5Kn1fcNaTMg7tARe7TdEDqQ*26m*3DwaSKY67JF57IZXg30ysFB_R7OG9zoQwFwxyps6FbTa1Zh5mttxRot_t4N7mn68Pj*26s*3DAo9QQWtO62go0hx1tb3NU6xw2FNBadjj8q64-hl5Sx4*26e*3D&data=04*7C01*7Ctgd*40oregonstate.edu*7C3db6ca275cc748415eaa08d9e732a318*7Cce6d05e13c5e4d6287a84c4a2713c113*7C0*7C0*7C637795026944990348*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C3000&sdata=gRfN5WuMr4*2BLwZMRqPOPaTJ97VoUB*2FVRMELwu5lQeiU*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJQ!!IKRxdwAv5BmarQ!IcLaVAupTYedSuWIPJGuIdRdOzEq4sib8fyufCCcC5bvaoUXwfrn-27dvH_NVZ8$>
>
>
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.proofpoint.com*2Fv2*2Furl*3Fu*3Dhttps-3A__www.avast.com_sig-2Demail-3Futm-5Fmedium-3Demail-26utm-5Fsource-3Dlink-26utm-5Fcampaign-3Dsig-2Demail-26utm-5Fcontent-3Dwebmail*26d*3DDwMFaQ*26c*3DslrrB7dE8n7gBJbeO0g-IQ*26r*3DwQR1NePCSj6dOGDD0r6B5Kn1fcNaTMg7tARe7TdEDqQ*26m*3DwaSKY67JF57IZXg30ysFB_R7OG9zoQwFwxyps6FbTa1Zh5mttxRot_t4N7mn68Pj*26s*3DAo9QQWtO62go0hx1tb3NU6xw2FNBadjj8q64-hl5Sx4*26e*3D&data=04*7C01*7Ctgd*40oregonstate.edu*7C3db6ca275cc748415eaa08d9e732a318*7Cce6d05e13c5e4d6287a84c4a2713c113*7C0*7C0*7C637795026944990348*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C3000&sdata=gRfN5WuMr4*2BLwZMRqPOPaTJ97VoUB*2FVRMELwu5lQeiU*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJQ!!IKRxdwAv5BmarQ!IcLaVAupTYedSuWIPJGuIdRdOzEq4sib8fyufCCcC5bvaoUXwfrn-27dvH_NVZ8$>
>
> The Hinton-Hanson interview that you just published is a real-time example
> of just that. It opens with a needless and largely content-free personal
> attack on a single scholar (me), with the explicit intention of
> discrediting that person. Worse, the only substantive thing it says is
> false.
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.proofpoint.com*2Fv2*2Furl*3Fu*3Dhttps-3A__www.avast.com_sig-2Demail-3Futm-5Fmedium-3Demail-26utm-5Fsource-3Dlink-26utm-5Fcampaign-3Dsig-2Demail-26utm-5Fcontent-3Dwebmail*26d*3DDwMFaQ*26c*3DslrrB7dE8n7gBJbeO0g-IQ*26r*3DwQR1NePCSj6dOGDD0r6B5Kn1fcNaTMg7tARe7TdEDqQ*26m*3DwaSKY67JF57IZXg30ysFB_R7OG9zoQwFwxyps6FbTa1Zh5mttxRot_t4N7mn68Pj*26s*3DAo9QQWtO62go0hx1tb3NU6xw2FNBadjj8q64-hl5Sx4*26e*3D&data=04*7C01*7Ctgd*40oregonstate.edu*7C3db6ca275cc748415eaa08d9e732a318*7Cce6d05e13c5e4d6287a84c4a2713c113*7C0*7C0*7C637795026944990348*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C3000&sdata=gRfN5WuMr4*2BLwZMRqPOPaTJ97VoUB*2FVRMELwu5lQeiU*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJQ!!IKRxdwAv5BmarQ!IcLaVAupTYedSuWIPJGuIdRdOzEq4sib8fyufCCcC5bvaoUXwfrn-27dvH_NVZ8$>
>
>
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.proofpoint.com*2Fv2*2Furl*3Fu*3Dhttps-3A__www.avast.com_sig-2Demail-3Futm-5Fmedium-3Demail-26utm-5Fsource-3Dlink-26utm-5Fcampaign-3Dsig-2Demail-26utm-5Fcontent-3Dwebmail*26d*3DDwMFaQ*26c*3DslrrB7dE8n7gBJbeO0g-IQ*26r*3DwQR1NePCSj6dOGDD0r6B5Kn1fcNaTMg7tARe7TdEDqQ*26m*3DwaSKY67JF57IZXg30ysFB_R7OG9zoQwFwxyps6FbTa1Zh5mttxRot_t4N7mn68Pj*26s*3DAo9QQWtO62go0hx1tb3NU6xw2FNBadjj8q64-hl5Sx4*26e*3D&data=04*7C01*7Ctgd*40oregonstate.edu*7C3db6ca275cc748415eaa08d9e732a318*7Cce6d05e13c5e4d6287a84c4a2713c113*7C0*7C0*7C637795026944990348*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C3000&sdata=gRfN5WuMr4*2BLwZMRqPOPaTJ97VoUB*2FVRMELwu5lQeiU*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJQ!!IKRxdwAv5BmarQ!IcLaVAupTYedSuWIPJGuIdRdOzEq4sib8fyufCCcC5bvaoUXwfrn-27dvH_NVZ8$>
>
> Hinton says “In 2015 he [Marcus] made a prediction that computers wouldn’t
> be able to do machine translation.”
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.proofpoint.com*2Fv2*2Furl*3Fu*3Dhttps-3A__www.avast.com_sig-2Demail-3Futm-5Fmedium-3Demail-26utm-5Fsource-3Dlink-26utm-5Fcampaign-3Dsig-2Demail-26utm-5Fcontent-3Dwebmail*26d*3DDwMFaQ*26c*3DslrrB7dE8n7gBJbeO0g-IQ*26r*3DwQR1NePCSj6dOGDD0r6B5Kn1fcNaTMg7tARe7TdEDqQ*26m*3DwaSKY67JF57IZXg30ysFB_R7OG9zoQwFwxyps6FbTa1Zh5mttxRot_t4N7mn68Pj*26s*3DAo9QQWtO62go0hx1tb3NU6xw2FNBadjj8q64-hl5Sx4*26e*3D&data=04*7C01*7Ctgd*40oregonstate.edu*7C3db6ca275cc748415eaa08d9e732a318*7Cce6d05e13c5e4d6287a84c4a2713c113*7C0*7C0*7C637795026944990348*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C3000&sdata=gRfN5WuMr4*2BLwZMRqPOPaTJ97VoUB*2FVRMELwu5lQeiU*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJQ!!IKRxdwAv5BmarQ!IcLaVAupTYedSuWIPJGuIdRdOzEq4sib8fyufCCcC5bvaoUXwfrn-27dvH_NVZ8$>
>
>
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.proofpoint.com*2Fv2*2Furl*3Fu*3Dhttps-3A__www.avast.com_sig-2Demail-3Futm-5Fmedium-3Demail-26utm-5Fsource-3Dlink-26utm-5Fcampaign-3Dsig-2Demail-26utm-5Fcontent-3Dwebmail*26d*3DDwMFaQ*26c*3DslrrB7dE8n7gBJbeO0g-IQ*26r*3DwQR1NePCSj6dOGDD0r6B5Kn1fcNaTMg7tARe7TdEDqQ*26m*3DwaSKY67JF57IZXg30ysFB_R7OG9zoQwFwxyps6FbTa1Zh5mttxRot_t4N7mn68Pj*26s*3DAo9QQWtO62go0hx1tb3NU6xw2FNBadjj8q64-hl5Sx4*26e*3D&data=04*7C01*7Ctgd*40oregonstate.edu*7C3db6ca275cc748415eaa08d9e732a318*7Cce6d05e13c5e4d6287a84c4a2713c113*7C0*7C0*7C637795026944990348*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C3000&sdata=gRfN5WuMr4*2BLwZMRqPOPaTJ97VoUB*2FVRMELwu5lQeiU*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJQ!!IKRxdwAv5BmarQ!IcLaVAupTYedSuWIPJGuIdRdOzEq4sib8fyufCCcC5bvaoUXwfrn-27dvH_NVZ8$>
>
> I never said any such thing.
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.proofpoint.com*2Fv2*2Furl*3Fu*3Dhttps-3A__www.avast.com_sig-2Demail-3Futm-5Fmedium-3Demail-26utm-5Fsource-3Dlink-26utm-5Fcampaign-3Dsig-2Demail-26utm-5Fcontent-3Dwebmail*26d*3DDwMFaQ*26c*3DslrrB7dE8n7gBJbeO0g-IQ*26r*3DwQR1NePCSj6dOGDD0r6B5Kn1fcNaTMg7tARe7TdEDqQ*26m*3DwaSKY67JF57IZXg30ysFB_R7OG9zoQwFwxyps6FbTa1Zh5mttxRot_t4N7mn68Pj*26s*3DAo9QQWtO62go0hx1tb3NU6xw2FNBadjj8q64-hl5Sx4*26e*3D&data=04*7C01*7Ctgd*40oregonstate.edu*7C3db6ca275cc748415eaa08d9e732a318*7Cce6d05e13c5e4d6287a84c4a2713c113*7C0*7C0*7C637795026944990348*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C3000&sdata=gRfN5WuMr4*2BLwZMRqPOPaTJ97VoUB*2FVRMELwu5lQeiU*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJQ!!IKRxdwAv5BmarQ!IcLaVAupTYedSuWIPJGuIdRdOzEq4sib8fyufCCcC5bvaoUXwfrn-27dvH_NVZ8$>
>
>
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.proofpoint.com*2Fv2*2Furl*3Fu*3Dhttps-3A__www.avast.com_sig-2Demail-3Futm-5Fmedium-3Demail-26utm-5Fsource-3Dlink-26utm-5Fcampaign-3Dsig-2Demail-26utm-5Fcontent-3Dwebmail*26d*3DDwMFaQ*26c*3DslrrB7dE8n7gBJbeO0g-IQ*26r*3DwQR1NePCSj6dOGDD0r6B5Kn1fcNaTMg7tARe7TdEDqQ*26m*3DwaSKY67JF57IZXg30ysFB_R7OG9zoQwFwxyps6FbTa1Zh5mttxRot_t4N7mn68Pj*26s*3DAo9QQWtO62go0hx1tb3NU6xw2FNBadjj8q64-hl5Sx4*26e*3D&data=04*7C01*7Ctgd*40oregonstate.edu*7C3db6ca275cc748415eaa08d9e732a318*7Cce6d05e13c5e4d6287a84c4a2713c113*7C0*7C0*7C637795026944990348*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C3000&sdata=gRfN5WuMr4*2BLwZMRqPOPaTJ97VoUB*2FVRMELwu5lQeiU*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJQ!!IKRxdwAv5BmarQ!IcLaVAupTYedSuWIPJGuIdRdOzEq4sib8fyufCCcC5bvaoUXwfrn-27dvH_NVZ8$>
>
> What I predicted, rather, was that multilayer perceptrons, as they existed
> then, would not (on their own, absent other mechanisms) *understand* language.
> Seven years later, they still haven’t, except in the most superficial way.
>
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.proofpoint.com*2Fv2*2Furl*3Fu*3Dhttps-3A__www.avast.com_sig-2Demail-3Futm-5Fmedium-3Demail-26utm-5Fsource-3Dlink-26utm-5Fcampaign-3Dsig-2Demail-26utm-5Fcontent-3Dwebmail*26d*3DDwMFaQ*26c*3DslrrB7dE8n7gBJbeO0g-IQ*26r*3DwQR1NePCSj6dOGDD0r6B5Kn1fcNaTMg7tARe7TdEDqQ*26m*3DwaSKY67JF57IZXg30ysFB_R7OG9zoQwFwxyps6FbTa1Zh5mttxRot_t4N7mn68Pj*26s*3DAo9QQWtO62go0hx1tb3NU6xw2FNBadjj8q64-hl5Sx4*26e*3D&data=04*7C01*7Ctgd*40oregonstate.edu*7C3db6ca275cc748415eaa08d9e732a318*7Cce6d05e13c5e4d6287a84c4a2713c113*7C0*7C0*7C637795026944990348*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C3000&sdata=gRfN5WuMr4*2BLwZMRqPOPaTJ97VoUB*2FVRMELwu5lQeiU*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJQ!!IKRxdwAv5BmarQ!IcLaVAupTYedSuWIPJGuIdRdOzEq4sib8fyufCCcC5bvaoUXwfrn-27dvH_NVZ8$>
>
>
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.proofpoint.com*2Fv2*2Furl*3Fu*3Dhttps-3A__www.avast.com_sig-2Demail-3Futm-5Fmedium-3Demail-26utm-5Fsource-3Dlink-26utm-5Fcampaign-3Dsig-2Demail-26utm-5Fcontent-3Dwebmail*26d*3DDwMFaQ*26c*3DslrrB7dE8n7gBJbeO0g-IQ*26r*3DwQR1NePCSj6dOGDD0r6B5Kn1fcNaTMg7tARe7TdEDqQ*26m*3DwaSKY67JF57IZXg30ysFB_R7OG9zoQwFwxyps6FbTa1Zh5mttxRot_t4N7mn68Pj*26s*3DAo9QQWtO62go0hx1tb3NU6xw2FNBadjj8q64-hl5Sx4*26e*3D&data=04*7C01*7Ctgd*40oregonstate.edu*7C3db6ca275cc748415eaa08d9e732a318*7Cce6d05e13c5e4d6287a84c4a2713c113*7C0*7C0*7C637795026944990348*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C3000&sdata=gRfN5WuMr4*2BLwZMRqPOPaTJ97VoUB*2FVRMELwu5lQeiU*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJQ!!IKRxdwAv5BmarQ!IcLaVAupTYedSuWIPJGuIdRdOzEq4sib8fyufCCcC5bvaoUXwfrn-27dvH_NVZ8$>
>
> I made no comment whatsoever about machine translation, which I view as a
> separate problem, solvable to a certain degree by correspondance without
> semantics.
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.proofpoint.com*2Fv2*2Furl*3Fu*3Dhttps-3A__www.avast.com_sig-2Demail-3Futm-5Fmedium-3Demail-26utm-5Fsource-3Dlink-26utm-5Fcampaign-3Dsig-2Demail-26utm-5Fcontent-3Dwebmail*26d*3DDwMFaQ*26c*3DslrrB7dE8n7gBJbeO0g-IQ*26r*3DwQR1NePCSj6dOGDD0r6B5Kn1fcNaTMg7tARe7TdEDqQ*26m*3DwaSKY67JF57IZXg30ysFB_R7OG9zoQwFwxyps6FbTa1Zh5mttxRot_t4N7mn68Pj*26s*3DAo9QQWtO62go0hx1tb3NU6xw2FNBadjj8q64-hl5Sx4*26e*3D&data=04*7C01*7Ctgd*40oregonstate.edu*7C3db6ca275cc748415eaa08d9e732a318*7Cce6d05e13c5e4d6287a84c4a2713c113*7C0*7C0*7C637795026944990348*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C3000&sdata=gRfN5WuMr4*2BLwZMRqPOPaTJ97VoUB*2FVRMELwu5lQeiU*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJQ!!IKRxdwAv5BmarQ!IcLaVAupTYedSuWIPJGuIdRdOzEq4sib8fyufCCcC5bvaoUXwfrn-27dvH_NVZ8$>
>
>
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.proofpoint.com*2Fv2*2Furl*3Fu*3Dhttps-3A__www.avast.com_sig-2Demail-3Futm-5Fmedium-3Demail-26utm-5Fsource-3Dlink-26utm-5Fcampaign-3Dsig-2Demail-26utm-5Fcontent-3Dwebmail*26d*3DDwMFaQ*26c*3DslrrB7dE8n7gBJbeO0g-IQ*26r*3DwQR1NePCSj6dOGDD0r6B5Kn1fcNaTMg7tARe7TdEDqQ*26m*3DwaSKY67JF57IZXg30ysFB_R7OG9zoQwFwxyps6FbTa1Zh5mttxRot_t4N7mn68Pj*26s*3DAo9QQWtO62go0hx1tb3NU6xw2FNBadjj8q64-hl5Sx4*26e*3D&data=04*7C01*7Ctgd*40oregonstate.edu*7C3db6ca275cc748415eaa08d9e732a318*7Cce6d05e13c5e4d6287a84c4a2713c113*7C0*7C0*7C637795026944990348*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C3000&sdata=gRfN5WuMr4*2BLwZMRqPOPaTJ97VoUB*2FVRMELwu5lQeiU*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJQ!!IKRxdwAv5BmarQ!IcLaVAupTYedSuWIPJGuIdRdOzEq4sib8fyufCCcC5bvaoUXwfrn-27dvH_NVZ8$>
>
> I specifically tried to clarify Hinton’s confusion in 2019, but,
> disappointingly, he has continued to purvey misinformation despite that
> clarification. Here is what I wrote privately to him then, which should
> have put the matter to rest:
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.proofpoint.com*2Fv2*2Furl*3Fu*3Dhttps-3A__www.avast.com_sig-2Demail-3Futm-5Fmedium-3Demail-26utm-5Fsource-3Dlink-26utm-5Fcampaign-3Dsig-2Demail-26utm-5Fcontent-3Dwebmail*26d*3DDwMFaQ*26c*3DslrrB7dE8n7gBJbeO0g-IQ*26r*3DwQR1NePCSj6dOGDD0r6B5Kn1fcNaTMg7tARe7TdEDqQ*26m*3DwaSKY67JF57IZXg30ysFB_R7OG9zoQwFwxyps6FbTa1Zh5mttxRot_t4N7mn68Pj*26s*3DAo9QQWtO62go0hx1tb3NU6xw2FNBadjj8q64-hl5Sx4*26e*3D&data=04*7C01*7Ctgd*40oregonstate.edu*7C3db6ca275cc748415eaa08d9e732a318*7Cce6d05e13c5e4d6287a84c4a2713c113*7C0*7C0*7C637795026944990348*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C3000&sdata=gRfN5WuMr4*2BLwZMRqPOPaTJ97VoUB*2FVRMELwu5lQeiU*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJQ!!IKRxdwAv5BmarQ!IcLaVAupTYedSuWIPJGuIdRdOzEq4sib8fyufCCcC5bvaoUXwfrn-27dvH_NVZ8$>
>
>
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.proofpoint.com*2Fv2*2Furl*3Fu*3Dhttps-3A__www.avast.com_sig-2Demail-3Futm-5Fmedium-3Demail-26utm-5Fsource-3Dlink-26utm-5Fcampaign-3Dsig-2Demail-26utm-5Fcontent-3Dwebmail*26d*3DDwMFaQ*26c*3DslrrB7dE8n7gBJbeO0g-IQ*26r*3DwQR1NePCSj6dOGDD0r6B5Kn1fcNaTMg7tARe7TdEDqQ*26m*3DwaSKY67JF57IZXg30ysFB_R7OG9zoQwFwxyps6FbTa1Zh5mttxRot_t4N7mn68Pj*26s*3DAo9QQWtO62go0hx1tb3NU6xw2FNBadjj8q64-hl5Sx4*26e*3D&data=04*7C01*7Ctgd*40oregonstate.edu*7C3db6ca275cc748415eaa08d9e732a318*7Cce6d05e13c5e4d6287a84c4a2713c113*7C0*7C0*7C637795026944990348*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C3000&sdata=gRfN5WuMr4*2BLwZMRqPOPaTJ97VoUB*2FVRMELwu5lQeiU*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJQ!!IKRxdwAv5BmarQ!IcLaVAupTYedSuWIPJGuIdRdOzEq4sib8fyufCCcC5bvaoUXwfrn-27dvH_NVZ8$>
>
> You have taken a single out of context quote [from 2015] and
> misrepresented it. The quote, which you have prominently displayed at the
> bottom on your own web page, says:
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.proofpoint.com*2Fv2*2Furl*3Fu*3Dhttps-3A__www.avast.com_sig-2Demail-3Futm-5Fmedium-3Demail-26utm-5Fsource-3Dlink-26utm-5Fcampaign-3Dsig-2Demail-26utm-5Fcontent-3Dwebmail*26d*3DDwMFaQ*26c*3DslrrB7dE8n7gBJbeO0g-IQ*26r*3DwQR1NePCSj6dOGDD0r6B5Kn1fcNaTMg7tARe7TdEDqQ*26m*3DwaSKY67JF57IZXg30ysFB_R7OG9zoQwFwxyps6FbTa1Zh5mttxRot_t4N7mn68Pj*26s*3DAo9QQWtO62go0hx1tb3NU6xw2FNBadjj8q64-hl5Sx4*26e*3D&data=04*7C01*7Ctgd*40oregonstate.edu*7C3db6ca275cc748415eaa08d9e732a318*7Cce6d05e13c5e4d6287a84c4a2713c113*7C0*7C0*7C637795026944990348*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C3000&sdata=gRfN5WuMr4*2BLwZMRqPOPaTJ97VoUB*2FVRMELwu5lQeiU*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJQ!!IKRxdwAv5BmarQ!IcLaVAupTYedSuWIPJGuIdRdOzEq4sib8fyufCCcC5bvaoUXwfrn-27dvH_NVZ8$>
>
>
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.proofpoint.com*2Fv2*2Furl*3Fu*3Dhttps-3A__www.avast.com_sig-2Demail-3Futm-5Fmedium-3Demail-26utm-5Fsource-3Dlink-26utm-5Fcampaign-3Dsig-2Demail-26utm-5Fcontent-3Dwebmail*26d*3DDwMFaQ*26c*3DslrrB7dE8n7gBJbeO0g-IQ*26r*3DwQR1NePCSj6dOGDD0r6B5Kn1fcNaTMg7tARe7TdEDqQ*26m*3DwaSKY67JF57IZXg30ysFB_R7OG9zoQwFwxyps6FbTa1Zh5mttxRot_t4N7mn68Pj*26s*3DAo9QQWtO62go0hx1tb3NU6xw2FNBadjj8q64-hl5Sx4*26e*3D&data=04*7C01*7Ctgd*40oregonstate.edu*7C3db6ca275cc748415eaa08d9e732a318*7Cce6d05e13c5e4d6287a84c4a2713c113*7C0*7C0*7C637795026944990348*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C3000&sdata=gRfN5WuMr4*2BLwZMRqPOPaTJ97VoUB*2FVRMELwu5lQeiU*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJQ!!IKRxdwAv5BmarQ!IcLaVAupTYedSuWIPJGuIdRdOzEq4sib8fyufCCcC5bvaoUXwfrn-27dvH_NVZ8$>
>
> Hierarchies of features are less suited to challenges such as language,
> inference, and high-level planning. For example, as Noam Chomsky famously
> pointed out, language is filled with sentences you haven't seen
> before. Pure classifier systems don't know what to do with such sentences.
> The talent of feature detectors -- in  identifying which member of some
> category something belongs to -- doesn't translate into understanding
> novel  sentences, in which each sentence has its own unique meaning.
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.proofpoint.com*2Fv2*2Furl*3Fu*3Dhttps-3A__www.avast.com_sig-2Demail-3Futm-5Fmedium-3Demail-26utm-5Fsource-3Dlink-26utm-5Fcampaign-3Dsig-2Demail-26utm-5Fcontent-3Dwebmail*26d*3DDwMFaQ*26c*3DslrrB7dE8n7gBJbeO0g-IQ*26r*3DwQR1NePCSj6dOGDD0r6B5Kn1fcNaTMg7tARe7TdEDqQ*26m*3DwaSKY67JF57IZXg30ysFB_R7OG9zoQwFwxyps6FbTa1Zh5mttxRot_t4N7mn68Pj*26s*3DAo9QQWtO62go0hx1tb3NU6xw2FNBadjj8q64-hl5Sx4*26e*3D&data=04*7C01*7Ctgd*40oregonstate.edu*7C3db6ca275cc748415eaa08d9e732a318*7Cce6d05e13c5e4d6287a84c4a2713c113*7C0*7C0*7C637795026944990348*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C3000&sdata=gRfN5WuMr4*2BLwZMRqPOPaTJ97VoUB*2FVRMELwu5lQeiU*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJQ!!IKRxdwAv5BmarQ!IcLaVAupTYedSuWIPJGuIdRdOzEq4sib8fyufCCcC5bvaoUXwfrn-27dvH_NVZ8$>
>
>
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.proofpoint.com*2Fv2*2Furl*3Fu*3Dhttps-3A__www.avast.com_sig-2Demail-3Futm-5Fmedium-3Demail-26utm-5Fsource-3Dlink-26utm-5Fcampaign-3Dsig-2Demail-26utm-5Fcontent-3Dwebmail*26d*3DDwMFaQ*26c*3DslrrB7dE8n7gBJbeO0g-IQ*26r*3DwQR1NePCSj6dOGDD0r6B5Kn1fcNaTMg7tARe7TdEDqQ*26m*3DwaSKY67JF57IZXg30ysFB_R7OG9zoQwFwxyps6FbTa1Zh5mttxRot_t4N7mn68Pj*26s*3DAo9QQWtO62go0hx1tb3NU6xw2FNBadjj8q64-hl5Sx4*26e*3D&data=04*7C01*7Ctgd*40oregonstate.edu*7C3db6ca275cc748415eaa08d9e732a318*7Cce6d05e13c5e4d6287a84c4a2713c113*7C0*7C0*7C637795026944990348*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C3000&sdata=gRfN5WuMr4*2BLwZMRqPOPaTJ97VoUB*2FVRMELwu5lQeiU*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJQ!!IKRxdwAv5BmarQ!IcLaVAupTYedSuWIPJGuIdRdOzEq4sib8fyufCCcC5bvaoUXwfrn-27dvH_NVZ8$>
>
> It does *not* say "neural nets would not be able to deal with novel
> sentences"; it says that hierachies of features detectors (on their own, if
> you read the context of the essay) would have trouble *understanding *novel sentences.
>
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.proofpoint.com*2Fv2*2Furl*3Fu*3Dhttps-3A__www.avast.com_sig-2Demail-3Futm-5Fmedium-3Demail-26utm-5Fsource-3Dlink-26utm-5Fcampaign-3Dsig-2Demail-26utm-5Fcontent-3Dwebmail*26d*3DDwMFaQ*26c*3DslrrB7dE8n7gBJbeO0g-IQ*26r*3DwQR1NePCSj6dOGDD0r6B5Kn1fcNaTMg7tARe7TdEDqQ*26m*3DwaSKY67JF57IZXg30ysFB_R7OG9zoQwFwxyps6FbTa1Zh5mttxRot_t4N7mn68Pj*26s*3DAo9QQWtO62go0hx1tb3NU6xw2FNBadjj8q64-hl5Sx4*26e*3D&data=04*7C01*7Ctgd*40oregonstate.edu*7C3db6ca275cc748415eaa08d9e732a318*7Cce6d05e13c5e4d6287a84c4a2713c113*7C0*7C0*7C637795026944990348*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C3000&sdata=gRfN5WuMr4*2BLwZMRqPOPaTJ97VoUB*2FVRMELwu5lQeiU*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJQ!!IKRxdwAv5BmarQ!IcLaVAupTYedSuWIPJGuIdRdOzEq4sib8fyufCCcC5bvaoUXwfrn-27dvH_NVZ8$>
>
>
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.proofpoint.com*2Fv2*2Furl*3Fu*3Dhttps-3A__www.avast.com_sig-2Demail-3Futm-5Fmedium-3Demail-26utm-5Fsource-3Dlink-26utm-5Fcampaign-3Dsig-2Demail-26utm-5Fcontent-3Dwebmail*26d*3DDwMFaQ*26c*3DslrrB7dE8n7gBJbeO0g-IQ*26r*3DwQR1NePCSj6dOGDD0r6B5Kn1fcNaTMg7tARe7TdEDqQ*26m*3DwaSKY67JF57IZXg30ysFB_R7OG9zoQwFwxyps6FbTa1Zh5mttxRot_t4N7mn68Pj*26s*3DAo9QQWtO62go0hx1tb3NU6xw2FNBadjj8q64-hl5Sx4*26e*3D&data=04*7C01*7Ctgd*40oregonstate.edu*7C3db6ca275cc748415eaa08d9e732a318*7Cce6d05e13c5e4d6287a84c4a2713c113*7C0*7C0*7C637795026944990348*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C3000&sdata=gRfN5WuMr4*2BLwZMRqPOPaTJ97VoUB*2FVRMELwu5lQeiU*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJQ!!IKRxdwAv5BmarQ!IcLaVAupTYedSuWIPJGuIdRdOzEq4sib8fyufCCcC5bvaoUXwfrn-27dvH_NVZ8$>
>
> Google Translate does yet not *understand* the content of the sentences
> is translates. It cannot reliably answer questions about who did what to
> whom, or why, it cannot infer the order of the events in paragraphs, it
> can't determine the internal consistency of those events, and so forth.
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.proofpoint.com*2Fv2*2Furl*3Fu*3Dhttps-3A__www.avast.com_sig-2Demail-3Futm-5Fmedium-3Demail-26utm-5Fsource-3Dlink-26utm-5Fcampaign-3Dsig-2Demail-26utm-5Fcontent-3Dwebmail*26d*3DDwMFaQ*26c*3DslrrB7dE8n7gBJbeO0g-IQ*26r*3DwQR1NePCSj6dOGDD0r6B5Kn1fcNaTMg7tARe7TdEDqQ*26m*3DwaSKY67JF57IZXg30ysFB_R7OG9zoQwFwxyps6FbTa1Zh5mttxRot_t4N7mn68Pj*26s*3DAo9QQWtO62go0hx1tb3NU6xw2FNBadjj8q64-hl5Sx4*26e*3D&data=04*7C01*7Ctgd*40oregonstate.edu*7C3db6ca275cc748415eaa08d9e732a318*7Cce6d05e13c5e4d6287a84c4a2713c113*7C0*7C0*7C637795026944990348*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C3000&sdata=gRfN5WuMr4*2BLwZMRqPOPaTJ97VoUB*2FVRMELwu5lQeiU*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJQ!!IKRxdwAv5BmarQ!IcLaVAupTYedSuWIPJGuIdRdOzEq4sib8fyufCCcC5bvaoUXwfrn-27dvH_NVZ8$>
>
>
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.proofpoint.com*2Fv2*2Furl*3Fu*3Dhttps-3A__www.avast.com_sig-2Demail-3Futm-5Fmedium-3Demail-26utm-5Fsource-3Dlink-26utm-5Fcampaign-3Dsig-2Demail-26utm-5Fcontent-3Dwebmail*26d*3DDwMFaQ*26c*3DslrrB7dE8n7gBJbeO0g-IQ*26r*3DwQR1NePCSj6dOGDD0r6B5Kn1fcNaTMg7tARe7TdEDqQ*26m*3DwaSKY67JF57IZXg30ysFB_R7OG9zoQwFwxyps6FbTa1Zh5mttxRot_t4N7mn68Pj*26s*3DAo9QQWtO62go0hx1tb3NU6xw2FNBadjj8q64-hl5Sx4*26e*3D&data=04*7C01*7Ctgd*40oregonstate.edu*7C3db6ca275cc748415eaa08d9e732a318*7Cce6d05e13c5e4d6287a84c4a2713c113*7C0*7C0*7C637795026944990348*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C3000&sdata=gRfN5WuMr4*2BLwZMRqPOPaTJ97VoUB*2FVRMELwu5lQeiU*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJQ!!IKRxdwAv5BmarQ!IcLaVAupTYedSuWIPJGuIdRdOzEq4sib8fyufCCcC5bvaoUXwfrn-27dvH_NVZ8$>
>
> Since then, a number of scholars, such as the the computational linguist
> Emily Bender, have made similar points, and indeed current LLM difficulties
> with misinformation, incoherence and fabrication all follow from these
> concerns. Quoting from Bender’s prizewinning 2020 ACL article on the matter
> with Alexander Koller, *https://aclanthology.org/2020.acl-main.463.pdf*,
> also emphasizing issues of understanding and meaning:
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.proofpoint.com*2Fv2*2Furl*3Fu*3Dhttps-3A__www.avast.com_sig-2Demail-3Futm-5Fmedium-3Demail-26utm-5Fsource-3Dlink-26utm-5Fcampaign-3Dsig-2Demail-26utm-5Fcontent-3Dwebmail*26d*3DDwMFaQ*26c*3DslrrB7dE8n7gBJbeO0g-IQ*26r*3DwQR1NePCSj6dOGDD0r6B5Kn1fcNaTMg7tARe7TdEDqQ*26m*3DwaSKY67JF57IZXg30ysFB_R7OG9zoQwFwxyps6FbTa1Zh5mttxRot_t4N7mn68Pj*26s*3DAo9QQWtO62go0hx1tb3NU6xw2FNBadjj8q64-hl5Sx4*26e*3D&data=04*7C01*7Ctgd*40oregonstate.edu*7C3db6ca275cc748415eaa08d9e732a318*7Cce6d05e13c5e4d6287a84c4a2713c113*7C0*7C0*7C637795026944990348*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C3000&sdata=gRfN5WuMr4*2BLwZMRqPOPaTJ97VoUB*2FVRMELwu5lQeiU*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJQ!!IKRxdwAv5BmarQ!IcLaVAupTYedSuWIPJGuIdRdOzEq4sib8fyufCCcC5bvaoUXwfrn-27dvH_NVZ8$>
>
>
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.proofpoint.com*2Fv2*2Furl*3Fu*3Dhttps-3A__www.avast.com_sig-2Demail-3Futm-5Fmedium-3Demail-26utm-5Fsource-3Dlink-26utm-5Fcampaign-3Dsig-2Demail-26utm-5Fcontent-3Dwebmail*26d*3DDwMFaQ*26c*3DslrrB7dE8n7gBJbeO0g-IQ*26r*3DwQR1NePCSj6dOGDD0r6B5Kn1fcNaTMg7tARe7TdEDqQ*26m*3DwaSKY67JF57IZXg30ysFB_R7OG9zoQwFwxyps6FbTa1Zh5mttxRot_t4N7mn68Pj*26s*3DAo9QQWtO62go0hx1tb3NU6xw2FNBadjj8q64-hl5Sx4*26e*3D&data=04*7C01*7Ctgd*40oregonstate.edu*7C3db6ca275cc748415eaa08d9e732a318*7Cce6d05e13c5e4d6287a84c4a2713c113*7C0*7C0*7C637795026944990348*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C3000&sdata=gRfN5WuMr4*2BLwZMRqPOPaTJ97VoUB*2FVRMELwu5lQeiU*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJQ!!IKRxdwAv5BmarQ!IcLaVAupTYedSuWIPJGuIdRdOzEq4sib8fyufCCcC5bvaoUXwfrn-27dvH_NVZ8$>
>
> *The success of the large neural language models on many NLP tasks is
> exciting. However, we find that these successes sometimes lead to hype in
> which these models are being described as “understanding” language or
> capturing “meaning”. In this position paper, we argue that a system trained
> only on form has a priori no way to learn meaning. .. a clear understanding
> of the distinction between form and meaning will help guide the field
> towards better science around natural language understanding.
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.proofpoint.com*2Fv2*2Furl*3Fu*3Dhttps-3A__www.avast.com_sig-2Demail-3Futm-5Fmedium-3Demail-26utm-5Fsource-3Dlink-26utm-5Fcampaign-3Dsig-2Demail-26utm-5Fcontent-3Dwebmail*26d*3DDwMFaQ*26c*3DslrrB7dE8n7gBJbeO0g-IQ*26r*3DwQR1NePCSj6dOGDD0r6B5Kn1fcNaTMg7tARe7TdEDqQ*26m*3DwaSKY67JF57IZXg30ysFB_R7OG9zoQwFwxyps6FbTa1Zh5mttxRot_t4N7mn68Pj*26s*3DAo9QQWtO62go0hx1tb3NU6xw2FNBadjj8q64-hl5Sx4*26e*3D&data=04*7C01*7Ctgd*40oregonstate.edu*7C3db6ca275cc748415eaa08d9e732a318*7Cce6d05e13c5e4d6287a84c4a2713c113*7C0*7C0*7C637795026944990348*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C3000&sdata=gRfN5WuMr4*2BLwZMRqPOPaTJ97VoUB*2FVRMELwu5lQeiU*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJQ!!IKRxdwAv5BmarQ!IcLaVAupTYedSuWIPJGuIdRdOzEq4sib8fyufCCcC5bvaoUXwfrn-27dvH_NVZ8$>*
>
>
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.proofpoint.com*2Fv2*2Furl*3Fu*3Dhttps-3A__www.avast.com_sig-2Demail-3Futm-5Fmedium-3Demail-26utm-5Fsource-3Dlink-26utm-5Fcampaign-3Dsig-2Demail-26utm-5Fcontent-3Dwebmail*26d*3DDwMFaQ*26c*3DslrrB7dE8n7gBJbeO0g-IQ*26r*3DwQR1NePCSj6dOGDD0r6B5Kn1fcNaTMg7tARe7TdEDqQ*26m*3DwaSKY67JF57IZXg30ysFB_R7OG9zoQwFwxyps6FbTa1Zh5mttxRot_t4N7mn68Pj*26s*3DAo9QQWtO62go0hx1tb3NU6xw2FNBadjj8q64-hl5Sx4*26e*3D&data=04*7C01*7Ctgd*40oregonstate.edu*7C3db6ca275cc748415eaa08d9e732a318*7Cce6d05e13c5e4d6287a84c4a2713c113*7C0*7C0*7C637795026944990348*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C3000&sdata=gRfN5WuMr4*2BLwZMRqPOPaTJ97VoUB*2FVRMELwu5lQeiU*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJQ!!IKRxdwAv5BmarQ!IcLaVAupTYedSuWIPJGuIdRdOzEq4sib8fyufCCcC5bvaoUXwfrn-27dvH_NVZ8$>
>
> Her later article with Gebru on language models “stochastic parrots” is in
> some ways an extension of this point; machine translation requires mimicry,
> true understanding (which is what I was discussing in 2015) requires
> something deeper than that.
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.proofpoint.com*2Fv2*2Furl*3Fu*3Dhttps-3A__www.avast.com_sig-2Demail-3Futm-5Fmedium-3Demail-26utm-5Fsource-3Dlink-26utm-5Fcampaign-3Dsig-2Demail-26utm-5Fcontent-3Dwebmail*26d*3DDwMFaQ*26c*3DslrrB7dE8n7gBJbeO0g-IQ*26r*3DwQR1NePCSj6dOGDD0r6B5Kn1fcNaTMg7tARe7TdEDqQ*26m*3DwaSKY67JF57IZXg30ysFB_R7OG9zoQwFwxyps6FbTa1Zh5mttxRot_t4N7mn68Pj*26s*3DAo9QQWtO62go0hx1tb3NU6xw2FNBadjj8q64-hl5Sx4*26e*3D&data=04*7C01*7Ctgd*40oregonstate.edu*7C3db6ca275cc748415eaa08d9e732a318*7Cce6d05e13c5e4d6287a84c4a2713c113*7C0*7C0*7C637795026944990348*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C3000&sdata=gRfN5WuMr4*2BLwZMRqPOPaTJ97VoUB*2FVRMELwu5lQeiU*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJQ!!IKRxdwAv5BmarQ!IcLaVAupTYedSuWIPJGuIdRdOzEq4sib8fyufCCcC5bvaoUXwfrn-27dvH_NVZ8$>
>
>
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.proofpoint.com*2Fv2*2Furl*3Fu*3Dhttps-3A__www.avast.com_sig-2Demail-3Futm-5Fmedium-3Demail-26utm-5Fsource-3Dlink-26utm-5Fcampaign-3Dsig-2Demail-26utm-5Fcontent-3Dwebmail*26d*3DDwMFaQ*26c*3DslrrB7dE8n7gBJbeO0g-IQ*26r*3DwQR1NePCSj6dOGDD0r6B5Kn1fcNaTMg7tARe7TdEDqQ*26m*3DwaSKY67JF57IZXg30ysFB_R7OG9zoQwFwxyps6FbTa1Zh5mttxRot_t4N7mn68Pj*26s*3DAo9QQWtO62go0hx1tb3NU6xw2FNBadjj8q64-hl5Sx4*26e*3D&data=04*7C01*7Ctgd*40oregonstate.edu*7C3db6ca275cc748415eaa08d9e732a318*7Cce6d05e13c5e4d6287a84c4a2713c113*7C0*7C0*7C637795026944990348*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C3000&sdata=gRfN5WuMr4*2BLwZMRqPOPaTJ97VoUB*2FVRMELwu5lQeiU*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJQ!!IKRxdwAv5BmarQ!IcLaVAupTYedSuWIPJGuIdRdOzEq4sib8fyufCCcC5bvaoUXwfrn-27dvH_NVZ8$>
>
> Hinton’s intellectual error here is in equating machine translation with
> the deeper comprehension that robust natural language understanding will
> require; as Bender and Koller observed, the two appear not to be the same.
> (There is a longer discussion of the relation between language
> understanding and machine translation, and why the latter has turned out to
> be more approachable than the former, in my 2019 book with Ernest Davis).
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.proofpoint.com*2Fv2*2Furl*3Fu*3Dhttps-3A__www.avast.com_sig-2Demail-3Futm-5Fmedium-3Demail-26utm-5Fsource-3Dlink-26utm-5Fcampaign-3Dsig-2Demail-26utm-5Fcontent-3Dwebmail*26d*3DDwMFaQ*26c*3DslrrB7dE8n7gBJbeO0g-IQ*26r*3DwQR1NePCSj6dOGDD0r6B5Kn1fcNaTMg7tARe7TdEDqQ*26m*3DwaSKY67JF57IZXg30ysFB_R7OG9zoQwFwxyps6FbTa1Zh5mttxRot_t4N7mn68Pj*26s*3DAo9QQWtO62go0hx1tb3NU6xw2FNBadjj8q64-hl5Sx4*26e*3D&data=04*7C01*7Ctgd*40oregonstate.edu*7C3db6ca275cc748415eaa08d9e732a318*7Cce6d05e13c5e4d6287a84c4a2713c113*7C0*7C0*7C637795026944990348*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C3000&sdata=gRfN5WuMr4*2BLwZMRqPOPaTJ97VoUB*2FVRMELwu5lQeiU*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJQ!!IKRxdwAv5BmarQ!IcLaVAupTYedSuWIPJGuIdRdOzEq4sib8fyufCCcC5bvaoUXwfrn-27dvH_NVZ8$>
>
>
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.proofpoint.com*2Fv2*2Furl*3Fu*3Dhttps-3A__www.avast.com_sig-2Demail-3Futm-5Fmedium-3Demail-26utm-5Fsource-3Dlink-26utm-5Fcampaign-3Dsig-2Demail-26utm-5Fcontent-3Dwebmail*26d*3DDwMFaQ*26c*3DslrrB7dE8n7gBJbeO0g-IQ*26r*3DwQR1NePCSj6dOGDD0r6B5Kn1fcNaTMg7tARe7TdEDqQ*26m*3DwaSKY67JF57IZXg30ysFB_R7OG9zoQwFwxyps6FbTa1Zh5mttxRot_t4N7mn68Pj*26s*3DAo9QQWtO62go0hx1tb3NU6xw2FNBadjj8q64-hl5Sx4*26e*3D&data=04*7C01*7Ctgd*40oregonstate.edu*7C3db6ca275cc748415eaa08d9e732a318*7Cce6d05e13c5e4d6287a84c4a2713c113*7C0*7C0*7C637795026944990348*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C3000&sdata=gRfN5WuMr4*2BLwZMRqPOPaTJ97VoUB*2FVRMELwu5lQeiU*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJQ!!IKRxdwAv5BmarQ!IcLaVAupTYedSuWIPJGuIdRdOzEq4sib8fyufCCcC5bvaoUXwfrn-27dvH_NVZ8$>
>
> More broadly, Hinton’s ongoing dismissiveness of research from
> perspectives other than his own (e.g. linguistics) have done the field a
> disservice.
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.proofpoint.com*2Fv2*2Furl*3Fu*3Dhttps-3A__www.avast.com_sig-2Demail-3Futm-5Fmedium-3Demail-26utm-5Fsource-3Dlink-26utm-5Fcampaign-3Dsig-2Demail-26utm-5Fcontent-3Dwebmail*26d*3DDwMFaQ*26c*3DslrrB7dE8n7gBJbeO0g-IQ*26r*3DwQR1NePCSj6dOGDD0r6B5Kn1fcNaTMg7tARe7TdEDqQ*26m*3DwaSKY67JF57IZXg30ysFB_R7OG9zoQwFwxyps6FbTa1Zh5mttxRot_t4N7mn68Pj*26s*3DAo9QQWtO62go0hx1tb3NU6xw2FNBadjj8q64-hl5Sx4*26e*3D&data=04*7C01*7Ctgd*40oregonstate.edu*7C3db6ca275cc748415eaa08d9e732a318*7Cce6d05e13c5e4d6287a84c4a2713c113*7C0*7C0*7C637795026944990348*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C3000&sdata=gRfN5WuMr4*2BLwZMRqPOPaTJ97VoUB*2FVRMELwu5lQeiU*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJQ!!IKRxdwAv5BmarQ!IcLaVAupTYedSuWIPJGuIdRdOzEq4sib8fyufCCcC5bvaoUXwfrn-27dvH_NVZ8$>
>
>
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.proofpoint.com*2Fv2*2Furl*3Fu*3Dhttps-3A__www.avast.com_sig-2Demail-3Futm-5Fmedium-3Demail-26utm-5Fsource-3Dlink-26utm-5Fcampaign-3Dsig-2Demail-26utm-5Fcontent-3Dwebmail*26d*3DDwMFaQ*26c*3DslrrB7dE8n7gBJbeO0g-IQ*26r*3DwQR1NePCSj6dOGDD0r6B5Kn1fcNaTMg7tARe7TdEDqQ*26m*3DwaSKY67JF57IZXg30ysFB_R7OG9zoQwFwxyps6FbTa1Zh5mttxRot_t4N7mn68Pj*26s*3DAo9QQWtO62go0hx1tb3NU6xw2FNBadjj8q64-hl5Sx4*26e*3D&data=04*7C01*7Ctgd*40oregonstate.edu*7C3db6ca275cc748415eaa08d9e732a318*7Cce6d05e13c5e4d6287a84c4a2713c113*7C0*7C0*7C637795026944990348*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C3000&sdata=gRfN5WuMr4*2BLwZMRqPOPaTJ97VoUB*2FVRMELwu5lQeiU*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJQ!!IKRxdwAv5BmarQ!IcLaVAupTYedSuWIPJGuIdRdOzEq4sib8fyufCCcC5bvaoUXwfrn-27dvH_NVZ8$>
>
> As Herb Simon once observed, science does not have to be zero-sum.
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.proofpoint.com*2Fv2*2Furl*3Fu*3Dhttps-3A__www.avast.com_sig-2Demail-3Futm-5Fmedium-3Demail-26utm-5Fsource-3Dlink-26utm-5Fcampaign-3Dsig-2Demail-26utm-5Fcontent-3Dwebmail*26d*3DDwMFaQ*26c*3DslrrB7dE8n7gBJbeO0g-IQ*26r*3DwQR1NePCSj6dOGDD0r6B5Kn1fcNaTMg7tARe7TdEDqQ*26m*3DwaSKY67JF57IZXg30ysFB_R7OG9zoQwFwxyps6FbTa1Zh5mttxRot_t4N7mn68Pj*26s*3DAo9QQWtO62go0hx1tb3NU6xw2FNBadjj8q64-hl5Sx4*26e*3D&data=04*7C01*7Ctgd*40oregonstate.edu*7C3db6ca275cc748415eaa08d9e732a318*7Cce6d05e13c5e4d6287a84c4a2713c113*7C0*7C0*7C637795026944990348*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C3000&sdata=gRfN5WuMr4*2BLwZMRqPOPaTJ97VoUB*2FVRMELwu5lQeiU*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJQ!!IKRxdwAv5BmarQ!IcLaVAupTYedSuWIPJGuIdRdOzEq4sib8fyufCCcC5bvaoUXwfrn-27dvH_NVZ8$>
>
>
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.proofpoint.com*2Fv2*2Furl*3Fu*3Dhttps-3A__www.avast.com_sig-2Demail-3Futm-5Fmedium-3Demail-26utm-5Fsource-3Dlink-26utm-5Fcampaign-3Dsig-2Demail-26utm-5Fcontent-3Dwebmail*26d*3DDwMFaQ*26c*3DslrrB7dE8n7gBJbeO0g-IQ*26r*3DwQR1NePCSj6dOGDD0r6B5Kn1fcNaTMg7tARe7TdEDqQ*26m*3DwaSKY67JF57IZXg30ysFB_R7OG9zoQwFwxyps6FbTa1Zh5mttxRot_t4N7mn68Pj*26s*3DAo9QQWtO62go0hx1tb3NU6xw2FNBadjj8q64-hl5Sx4*26e*3D&data=04*7C01*7Ctgd*40oregonstate.edu*7C3db6ca275cc748415eaa08d9e732a318*7Cce6d05e13c5e4d6287a84c4a2713c113*7C0*7C0*7C637795026944990348*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C3000&sdata=gRfN5WuMr4*2BLwZMRqPOPaTJ97VoUB*2FVRMELwu5lQeiU*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJQ!!IKRxdwAv5BmarQ!IcLaVAupTYedSuWIPJGuIdRdOzEq4sib8fyufCCcC5bvaoUXwfrn-27dvH_NVZ8$>
>
> Sincerely,
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.proofpoint.com*2Fv2*2Furl*3Fu*3Dhttps-3A__www.avast.com_sig-2Demail-3Futm-5Fmedium-3Demail-26utm-5Fsource-3Dlink-26utm-5Fcampaign-3Dsig-2Demail-26utm-5Fcontent-3Dwebmail*26d*3DDwMFaQ*26c*3DslrrB7dE8n7gBJbeO0g-IQ*26r*3DwQR1NePCSj6dOGDD0r6B5Kn1fcNaTMg7tARe7TdEDqQ*26m*3DwaSKY67JF57IZXg30ysFB_R7OG9zoQwFwxyps6FbTa1Zh5mttxRot_t4N7mn68Pj*26s*3DAo9QQWtO62go0hx1tb3NU6xw2FNBadjj8q64-hl5Sx4*26e*3D&data=04*7C01*7Ctgd*40oregonstate.edu*7C3db6ca275cc748415eaa08d9e732a318*7Cce6d05e13c5e4d6287a84c4a2713c113*7C0*7C0*7C637795026944990348*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C3000&sdata=gRfN5WuMr4*2BLwZMRqPOPaTJ97VoUB*2FVRMELwu5lQeiU*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJQ!!IKRxdwAv5BmarQ!IcLaVAupTYedSuWIPJGuIdRdOzEq4sib8fyufCCcC5bvaoUXwfrn-27dvH_NVZ8$>
>
> Gary Marcus
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.proofpoint.com*2Fv2*2Furl*3Fu*3Dhttps-3A__www.avast.com_sig-2Demail-3Futm-5Fmedium-3Demail-26utm-5Fsource-3Dlink-26utm-5Fcampaign-3Dsig-2Demail-26utm-5Fcontent-3Dwebmail*26d*3DDwMFaQ*26c*3DslrrB7dE8n7gBJbeO0g-IQ*26r*3DwQR1NePCSj6dOGDD0r6B5Kn1fcNaTMg7tARe7TdEDqQ*26m*3DwaSKY67JF57IZXg30ysFB_R7OG9zoQwFwxyps6FbTa1Zh5mttxRot_t4N7mn68Pj*26s*3DAo9QQWtO62go0hx1tb3NU6xw2FNBadjj8q64-hl5Sx4*26e*3D&data=04*7C01*7Ctgd*40oregonstate.edu*7C3db6ca275cc748415eaa08d9e732a318*7Cce6d05e13c5e4d6287a84c4a2713c113*7C0*7C0*7C637795026944990348*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C3000&sdata=gRfN5WuMr4*2BLwZMRqPOPaTJ97VoUB*2FVRMELwu5lQeiU*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJQ!!IKRxdwAv5BmarQ!IcLaVAupTYedSuWIPJGuIdRdOzEq4sib8fyufCCcC5bvaoUXwfrn-27dvH_NVZ8$>
>
> Professor Emeritus
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.proofpoint.com*2Fv2*2Furl*3Fu*3Dhttps-3A__www.avast.com_sig-2Demail-3Futm-5Fmedium-3Demail-26utm-5Fsource-3Dlink-26utm-5Fcampaign-3Dsig-2Demail-26utm-5Fcontent-3Dwebmail*26d*3DDwMFaQ*26c*3DslrrB7dE8n7gBJbeO0g-IQ*26r*3DwQR1NePCSj6dOGDD0r6B5Kn1fcNaTMg7tARe7TdEDqQ*26m*3DwaSKY67JF57IZXg30ysFB_R7OG9zoQwFwxyps6FbTa1Zh5mttxRot_t4N7mn68Pj*26s*3DAo9QQWtO62go0hx1tb3NU6xw2FNBadjj8q64-hl5Sx4*26e*3D&data=04*7C01*7Ctgd*40oregonstate.edu*7C3db6ca275cc748415eaa08d9e732a318*7Cce6d05e13c5e4d6287a84c4a2713c113*7C0*7C0*7C637795026944990348*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C3000&sdata=gRfN5WuMr4*2BLwZMRqPOPaTJ97VoUB*2FVRMELwu5lQeiU*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJQ!!IKRxdwAv5BmarQ!IcLaVAupTYedSuWIPJGuIdRdOzEq4sib8fyufCCcC5bvaoUXwfrn-27dvH_NVZ8$>
>
> New York University
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.proofpoint.com*2Fv2*2Furl*3Fu*3Dhttps-3A__www.avast.com_sig-2Demail-3Futm-5Fmedium-3Demail-26utm-5Fsource-3Dlink-26utm-5Fcampaign-3Dsig-2Demail-26utm-5Fcontent-3Dwebmail*26d*3DDwMFaQ*26c*3DslrrB7dE8n7gBJbeO0g-IQ*26r*3DwQR1NePCSj6dOGDD0r6B5Kn1fcNaTMg7tARe7TdEDqQ*26m*3DwaSKY67JF57IZXg30ysFB_R7OG9zoQwFwxyps6FbTa1Zh5mttxRot_t4N7mn68Pj*26s*3DAo9QQWtO62go0hx1tb3NU6xw2FNBadjj8q64-hl5Sx4*26e*3D&data=04*7C01*7Ctgd*40oregonstate.edu*7C3db6ca275cc748415eaa08d9e732a318*7Cce6d05e13c5e4d6287a84c4a2713c113*7C0*7C0*7C637795026944990348*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C3000&sdata=gRfN5WuMr4*2BLwZMRqPOPaTJ97VoUB*2FVRMELwu5lQeiU*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJQ!!IKRxdwAv5BmarQ!IcLaVAupTYedSuWIPJGuIdRdOzEq4sib8fyufCCcC5bvaoUXwfrn-27dvH_NVZ8$>
>
>
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.proofpoint.com*2Fv2*2Furl*3Fu*3Dhttps-3A__www.avast.com_sig-2Demail-3Futm-5Fmedium-3Demail-26utm-5Fsource-3Dlink-26utm-5Fcampaign-3Dsig-2Demail-26utm-5Fcontent-3Dwebmail*26d*3DDwMFaQ*26c*3DslrrB7dE8n7gBJbeO0g-IQ*26r*3DwQR1NePCSj6dOGDD0r6B5Kn1fcNaTMg7tARe7TdEDqQ*26m*3DwaSKY67JF57IZXg30ysFB_R7OG9zoQwFwxyps6FbTa1Zh5mttxRot_t4N7mn68Pj*26s*3DAo9QQWtO62go0hx1tb3NU6xw2FNBadjj8q64-hl5Sx4*26e*3D&data=04*7C01*7Ctgd*40oregonstate.edu*7C3db6ca275cc748415eaa08d9e732a318*7Cce6d05e13c5e4d6287a84c4a2713c113*7C0*7C0*7C637795026944990348*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C3000&sdata=gRfN5WuMr4*2BLwZMRqPOPaTJ97VoUB*2FVRMELwu5lQeiU*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJQ!!IKRxdwAv5BmarQ!IcLaVAupTYedSuWIPJGuIdRdOzEq4sib8fyufCCcC5bvaoUXwfrn-27dvH_NVZ8$>
>
> On Feb 2, 2022, at 06:12, AIhub <*aihuborg at gmail.com*> wrote:
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.proofpoint.com*2Fv2*2Furl*3Fu*3Dhttps-3A__www.avast.com_sig-2Demail-3Futm-5Fmedium-3Demail-26utm-5Fsource-3Dlink-26utm-5Fcampaign-3Dsig-2Demail-26utm-5Fcontent-3Dwebmail*26d*3DDwMFaQ*26c*3DslrrB7dE8n7gBJbeO0g-IQ*26r*3DwQR1NePCSj6dOGDD0r6B5Kn1fcNaTMg7tARe7TdEDqQ*26m*3DwaSKY67JF57IZXg30ysFB_R7OG9zoQwFwxyps6FbTa1Zh5mttxRot_t4N7mn68Pj*26s*3DAo9QQWtO62go0hx1tb3NU6xw2FNBadjj8q64-hl5Sx4*26e*3D&data=04*7C01*7Ctgd*40oregonstate.edu*7C3db6ca275cc748415eaa08d9e732a318*7Cce6d05e13c5e4d6287a84c4a2713c113*7C0*7C0*7C637795026944990348*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C3000&sdata=gRfN5WuMr4*2BLwZMRqPOPaTJ97VoUB*2FVRMELwu5lQeiU*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJQ!!IKRxdwAv5BmarQ!IcLaVAupTYedSuWIPJGuIdRdOzEq4sib8fyufCCcC5bvaoUXwfrn-27dvH_NVZ8$>
>
> 
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.proofpoint.com*2Fv2*2Furl*3Fu*3Dhttps-3A__www.avast.com_sig-2Demail-3Futm-5Fmedium-3Demail-26utm-5Fsource-3Dlink-26utm-5Fcampaign-3Dsig-2Demail-26utm-5Fcontent-3Dwebmail*26d*3DDwMFaQ*26c*3DslrrB7dE8n7gBJbeO0g-IQ*26r*3DwQR1NePCSj6dOGDD0r6B5Kn1fcNaTMg7tARe7TdEDqQ*26m*3DwaSKY67JF57IZXg30ysFB_R7OG9zoQwFwxyps6FbTa1Zh5mttxRot_t4N7mn68Pj*26s*3DAo9QQWtO62go0hx1tb3NU6xw2FNBadjj8q64-hl5Sx4*26e*3D&data=04*7C01*7Ctgd*40oregonstate.edu*7C3db6ca275cc748415eaa08d9e732a318*7Cce6d05e13c5e4d6287a84c4a2713c113*7C0*7C0*7C637795026944990348*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C3000&sdata=gRfN5WuMr4*2BLwZMRqPOPaTJ97VoUB*2FVRMELwu5lQeiU*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJQ!!IKRxdwAv5BmarQ!IcLaVAupTYedSuWIPJGuIdRdOzEq4sib8fyufCCcC5bvaoUXwfrn-27dvH_NVZ8$>
>
> Stephen Hanson in conversation with Geoff Hinton
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.proofpoint.com*2Fv2*2Furl*3Fu*3Dhttps-3A__www.avast.com_sig-2Demail-3Futm-5Fmedium-3Demail-26utm-5Fsource-3Dlink-26utm-5Fcampaign-3Dsig-2Demail-26utm-5Fcontent-3Dwebmail*26d*3DDwMFaQ*26c*3DslrrB7dE8n7gBJbeO0g-IQ*26r*3DwQR1NePCSj6dOGDD0r6B5Kn1fcNaTMg7tARe7TdEDqQ*26m*3DwaSKY67JF57IZXg30ysFB_R7OG9zoQwFwxyps6FbTa1Zh5mttxRot_t4N7mn68Pj*26s*3DAo9QQWtO62go0hx1tb3NU6xw2FNBadjj8q64-hl5Sx4*26e*3D&data=04*7C01*7Ctgd*40oregonstate.edu*7C3db6ca275cc748415eaa08d9e732a318*7Cce6d05e13c5e4d6287a84c4a2713c113*7C0*7C0*7C637795026944990348*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C3000&sdata=gRfN5WuMr4*2BLwZMRqPOPaTJ97VoUB*2FVRMELwu5lQeiU*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJQ!!IKRxdwAv5BmarQ!IcLaVAupTYedSuWIPJGuIdRdOzEq4sib8fyufCCcC5bvaoUXwfrn-27dvH_NVZ8$>
>
>
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.proofpoint.com*2Fv2*2Furl*3Fu*3Dhttps-3A__www.avast.com_sig-2Demail-3Futm-5Fmedium-3Demail-26utm-5Fsource-3Dlink-26utm-5Fcampaign-3Dsig-2Demail-26utm-5Fcontent-3Dwebmail*26d*3DDwMFaQ*26c*3DslrrB7dE8n7gBJbeO0g-IQ*26r*3DwQR1NePCSj6dOGDD0r6B5Kn1fcNaTMg7tARe7TdEDqQ*26m*3DwaSKY67JF57IZXg30ysFB_R7OG9zoQwFwxyps6FbTa1Zh5mttxRot_t4N7mn68Pj*26s*3DAo9QQWtO62go0hx1tb3NU6xw2FNBadjj8q64-hl5Sx4*26e*3D&data=04*7C01*7Ctgd*40oregonstate.edu*7C3db6ca275cc748415eaa08d9e732a318*7Cce6d05e13c5e4d6287a84c4a2713c113*7C0*7C0*7C637795026944990348*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C3000&sdata=gRfN5WuMr4*2BLwZMRqPOPaTJ97VoUB*2FVRMELwu5lQeiU*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJQ!!IKRxdwAv5BmarQ!IcLaVAupTYedSuWIPJGuIdRdOzEq4sib8fyufCCcC5bvaoUXwfrn-27dvH_NVZ8$>
>
> In the latest episode of this video series for *AIhub.org*, Stephen
> Hanson talks to  Geoff Hinton about neural networks, backpropagation,
> overparameterization, digit recognition, voxel cells, syntax and semantics,
> Winograd sentences, and more.
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>
>
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>
> You can watch the discussion, and read the transcript, here:
>
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>
>
> *https://aihub.org/2022/02/02/what-is-ai-stephen-hanson-in-conversation-with-geoff-hinton/*
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-- 
Juyang (John) Weng
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