Connectionists: how the brain works?
Danko Nikolic
danko.nikolic at googlemail.com
Wed Mar 19 16:38:49 EDT 2014
Hi all,
The problem of detailed vs. abstract forms that is being discussed is in
the heart of practopoietic theory: It addresses that problem in a way
similar to the distinction between genotype and phenotype. For example,
if the basic architectural principles of cortex would correspond to
genotype, then the specific variation due to a particular sensory
modality would correspond to phenotype. Practopoiesis generalizes these
genotype-phenotype--like relations to all levels of system organization:
It defines hierarchical organization of cybernetic knowledge, each
higher level possessing more specific version of the knowledge provided
by the preceding one.
Practopoiesis suggests that the most interesting part is not a choice of
describing the system either with detailed or with abstract operations.
Instead, the process of transition from abstract to details is the
important one to understand. This transition process, called 'traverse',
is responsible for development of the organism, learning new knowledge,
execution of cognitive operations, and generation of behavior. In each
case, some general knowledge gets instantiated into more specific one.
Practopoiesis explains how this happens within a hierarchy, and what the
role of a continuous interaction with the environment is.
Danko
On 3/19/2014 9:07 PM, Brian J Mingus wrote:
> Hi Jim,
>
> Focusing too much on the details is risky in and of itself. Optimal
> compression requires a balance, and we can't compute what that balance
> is (all models are wrong). One thing we can say for sure is that we
> should err on the side of simplicity, and adding detail to theories
> before simpler explanations have failed is not Ockham's heuristic.
> That said it's still in the space of a Big Data fuzzy science
> approach, where we throw as much data from as many levels of analysis
> as we can come up with into a big pot and then construct a theory. The
> thing to keep in mind is that when we start pruning this model most of
> the details are going to disappear, because almost all of them are
> irrelevant. Indeed, the size of the description that includes all the
> details is almost infinite, whereas the length of the description that
> explains almost all the variance is extremely short, especially in
> comparison. This is why Ockham's razor is a good heuristic. It helps
> prevent us from wasting time on unnecessary details by suggesting that
> we only inquire as to the details once our existing simpler theory has
> failed to work.
>
> Brian
>
>
> On Wed, Mar 19, 2014 at 12:42 PM, james bower <bower at uthscsa.edu
> <mailto:bower at uthscsa.edu>> wrote:
>
> Actually, the previous statement is only true in its most abstract
> form -which in that form also applies to the heart, the kidney and
> trees too. So not sure what use that is. (trees used cellular
> based communication to react to predation by insects - and at
> least mine look like they are in pain when they do so).
>
>
> the further statement about similar developmental processes for
> cortical like brain structures is also only true in its most
> abstract sense. In particular, the cerebellum has a quite unique
> form of cortical development (very different from the frontal
> cortical structures. cell migration patterns, the way cellular
> components get connected, as well as general timing - all of which
> are almost certainly important to its function. The cerebellum,
> for example, largely develops entirely postnatally in most
> mammals. It is also important to note that cerebellar development
> is also considerably better understood than is the case for
> cerebral cortex.
>
> Again, as I have argued many times before - in biology (perhaps
> unfortunately) the devil (and therefore the computation) is in the
> details. Gloss over them at your risk.
>
> Jim
>
>
>
>
>
> On Mar 19, 2014, at 12:50 PM, Juyang Weng <weng at cse.msu.edu
> <mailto:weng at cse.msu.edu>> wrote:
>
> > Mike,
> >
> > Yes, they are very different in the signals they receive and
> process after at least several months' development prenatally, but
> this is
> > not a sufficiently deep causality for us to truly understand how
> the brain works. Cerebral cortex, hippocampus and cerebellum are
> all very similar in the mechanisms that enable them to develop
> into what they are, prenatally and postnatally.
> >
> > An intuitive way to think of this deeper causality is:
> Development is cell-based. The same set of cell properties
> enables cells to migrate, connect and form cerebral cortex,
> hippocampus and cerebellum while each cell taking signals from
> other cells.
> >
> > -John
> >
> > On 3/14/14 3:40 PM, Michael Arbib wrote:
> >> At 11:17 AM 3/14/2014, Juyang Weng wrote:
> >>> The brain uses a single architecture to do all brain functions
> we are aware of! It uses the same architecture to do vision,
> audition, motor, reasoning, decision making, motivation (including
> pain avoidance and pleasure seeking, novelty seeking, higher
> emotion, etc.).
> >>
> >> Gosh -- and I thought cerebral cortex, hippocampus and
> cerebellum were very different from each other.
> >>
> >
> > --
> > --
> > Juyang (John) Weng, Professor
> > Department of Computer Science and Engineering
> > MSU Cognitive Science Program and MSU Neuroscience Program
> > 428 S Shaw Ln Rm 3115
> > Michigan State University
> > East Lansing, MI 48824 USA
> > Tel: 517-353-4388 <tel:517-353-4388>
> > Fax: 517-432-1061 <tel:517-432-1061>
> > Email: weng at cse.msu.edu <mailto:weng at cse.msu.edu>
> > URL: http://www.cse.msu.edu/~weng/ <http://www.cse.msu.edu/%7Eweng/>
> > ----------------------------------------------
> >
>
>
>
--
Prof. Dr. Danko Nikolic
Web: http://www.danko-nikolic.com
Mail address 1:
Department of Neurophysiology
Max Planck Institut for Brain Research
Deutschordenstr. 46
60528 Frankfurt am Main
GERMANY
Mail address 2:
Frankfurt Institute for Advanced Studies
Wolfgang Goethe University
Ruth-Moufang-Str. 1
60433 Frankfurt am Main
GERMANY
----------------------------
Office: (..49-69) 96769-736
Lab: (..49-69) 96769-209
Fax: (..49-69) 96769-327
danko.nikolic at gmail.com
----------------------------
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