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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:18.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">Dear Asim, Andras et al.,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:18.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:18.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">The word “meaning” has several possible interpretations.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:18.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:18.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">Perhaps you are considering how a cell population that codes a learned
<b>recognition category</b> represents a <b>critical feature pattern</b> that acquires “meaning” when the category and critical features are bound together via a feature-category resonance between both types of representations.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:18.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:18.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">I write about this process in greater detail on p. 217 of my Magnum Opus<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:18.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:18.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">Conscious Mind, Resonant Brain: How Each Brain Makes a Mind<o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:18.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:18.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"><a href="https://www.amazon.com/Conscious-Mind-Resonant-Brain-Makes/dp/0190070552">https://www.amazon.com/Conscious-Mind-Resonant-Brain-Makes/dp/0190070552</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:18.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:18.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">I believe that one needs more than considerations of categories and their critical features to explain how we learn and understand language meanings during our daily lives.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:18.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:18.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">Here is an article that I recently published about how children learn perceptual and affective language meanings:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:18.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:18.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">Grossberg, S. (2023). How children learn to understand language meanings: A neural model of adult–child multimodal interactions in real-time. <i>Frontiers in Psychology</i>,
August 2, 2023. Section on <i>Cognitive Science</i>, Volume 14.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:18.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"><a href="https://www.frontiersin.org/journals/psychology/articles/10.3389/fpsyg.2023.1216479/full">https://www.frontiersin.org/journals/psychology/articles/10.3389/fpsyg.2023.1216479/full</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:16.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:18.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">I hope that you find some of the above comments helpful.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:18.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:18.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">Best,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:18.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:18.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">Steve<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:18.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">sites.bu.edu/steveg<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><b><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black">From:
</span></b><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black">Connectionists <connectionists-bounces@mailman.srv.cs.cmu.edu> on behalf of Asim Roy <ASIM.ROY@asu.edu><br>
<b>Date: </b>Monday, June 17, 2024 at 6:19 AM<br>
<b>To: </b>Lőrincz András <lorincz@inf.elte.hu>, Weng, Juyang <weng@msu.edu>, Gabriele Scheler <gscheler@gmail.com>, connectionists@mailman.srv.cs.cmu.edu <connectionists@mailman.srv.cs.cmu.edu><br>
<b>Subject: </b>Re: Connectionists: Ensemble computing<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Dear Andras,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">I did not see a connection between “meaning” and population coding in your explanation. May be I didn’t quite understand. Are you claiming that “meaning” can be associated with certain cells even when you
consider population coding?</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Best,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Asim</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> Lőrincz András <lorincz@inf.elte.hu>
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, June 17, 2024 12:19 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Asim Roy <ASIM.ROY@asu.edu>; Weng, Juyang <weng@msu.edu>; Gabriele Scheler <gscheler@gmail.com>; connectionists@mailman.srv.cs.cmu.edu<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: Connectionists: Ensemble computing</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black">Dear Asim:</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black">Place cells are spatio-temporal constructs subject to phase coding. They definitely fall under the category of population code. Single place cells are imprecise in defining the position, while the spatio-temporal
voting of the neuronal ensemble gives better results. In addition, the spatial response of a single neuron can't be seen as the abstract representation of 2D (3D for bats) geometry. There are other networks that respond too and are in phase synchrony (phase
locking – DOI: </span><span style="color:#0071BC"><a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/doi.org/10.1126/sciadv.abm6081__;!!IKRxdwAv5BmarQ!eTo2LLJCJFdZ4VyFRGGnP_rC7eTq0IvExJukpZBRCkXuGr46ZykQhgZ0k1Z8Pe8WQxbUXVPOO3RLWmAoqp3NCcsL$" target="_blank"><span style="color:#0071BC;text-decoration:none">10.1126/sciadv.abm6081</span></a></span><span style="color:black">)
offering additional metric and topology plus geometrical information for the forecasting capabilities of place cells enhancing further the relevance and the meaning of population coding. </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black">Furthermore, the existence of the representation of 2D (3D) geometry may not involve conscious thinking in terms of the belonging concepts. They may grant the precise decision about just-in-time action and nothing
else. Note that conscious knowledge of actions in humans are delayed by about 200 msec relative to the neuronal signals launched by the motor cortex to initiate those actions.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black">In turn, “meaning” does not seem to fly in the face of population coding.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black">Best,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black">Andras Lorincz</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black">Fellow of the European Association for Artificial Intelligence</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black">Department of Artificial Intelligence</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black">Faculty of Informatics</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black">Eotvos Lorand University</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black">Budapest, Hungary
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black"> Connectionists <<a href="mailto:connectionists-bounces@mailman.srv.cs.cmu.edu">connectionists-bounces@mailman.srv.cs.cmu.edu</a>>
on behalf of Asim Roy <<a href="mailto:ASIM.ROY@asu.edu">ASIM.ROY@asu.edu</a>></span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black">Sent:</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black"> Sunday, June 16, 2024 10:58 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Weng, Juyang <<a href="mailto:weng@msu.edu">weng@msu.edu</a>>; Gabriele Scheler <<a href="mailto:gscheler@gmail.com">gscheler@gmail.com</a>>;
<a href="mailto:connectionists@mailman.srv.cs.cmu.edu">connectionists@mailman.srv.cs.cmu.edu</a> <<a href="mailto:connectionists@mailman.srv.cs.cmu.edu">connectionists@mailman.srv.cs.cmu.edu</a>><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: Connectionists: Ensemble computing</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="elementtoproof"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Some have difficulty accepting findings that were rewarded with Nobel prizes. These scientists were rewarded for finding “meaning” in the activations of single neurons. That flies in the face of population
coding. And, in science, you can repeat these experiments and verify these findings again and again. Some see lots of activations and think that must be population coding.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p>Asim Roy<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>Professor, Information Systems<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>Arizona State University<o:p></o:p></p>
<p><u><span style="color:blue"><a href="https://search.asu.edu/profile/9973">Asim Roy | ASU Search</a></span></u><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="elementtoproof"><u><span style="color:blue"><a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/lifeboat.com/ex/bios.asim.roy__;!!IKRxdwAv5BmarQ!eTo2LLJCJFdZ4VyFRGGnP_rC7eTq0IvExJukpZBRCkXuGr46ZykQhgZ0k1Z8Pe8WQxbUXVPOO3RLWmAoqnI-RyYX$">Lifeboat Foundation
Bios: Professor Asim Roy</a></span></u><o:p></o:p></p>
<p> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p> <o:p></o:p></p>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p><b>From:</b> Connectionists <<a href="mailto:connectionists-bounces@mailman.srv.cs.cmu.edu">connectionists-bounces@mailman.srv.cs.cmu.edu</a>>
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Weng, Juyang<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Saturday, June 15, 2024 7:28 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Gabriele Scheler <<a href="mailto:gscheler@gmail.com">gscheler@gmail.com</a>>;
<a href="mailto:connectionists@mailman.srv.cs.cmu.edu">connectionists@mailman.srv.cs.cmu.edu</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: Connectionists: Ensemble computing<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p><span style="color:black">Dear Gabriele Scheler,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><span style="color:black"> You wrote, "Each symbol stands for one pattern". This is an invalid statement, meaningless in mathematics and computer science. </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><span style="color:black"> (1) I suggest that you review the term One-to-One correspondence required for symbolic representations in discrete mathematics and computer science (like Turing machines). </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><span style="color:black"> (2) Counter Example 1: While my brain senses your face, many neurons in my brain will fire. Do they stand for the same pattern (your face)? This means one-to-many mapping, defeating the one-to-one correspondence in (1). </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><span style="color:black"> (3) Counter Example 2: While my brain senses your face at different viewing angles, distances, and lighting conditionss, my motor neurons will fire to produce Gabriele Scheler. Any of motor neurons stand for many patterns of
your face, not only "one pattern". This means many-to-one mapping, defeating the one-to-one correspondence in (1). </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><span style="color:black"> With the above proof, "Each symbol stands for one pattern" is meaningless in mathematics and computer science.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><span style="color:black"> Best regards,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><span style="color:black">-John Weng</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><span style="color:black"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><span style="color:black">On Sat, Jun 15, 2024 at 9:46</span><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black"> </span><span style="color:black">PM Gabriele Scheler <</span><u><span style="color:blue"><a href="mailto:gscheler@gmail.com">gscheler@gmail.com</a></span></u><span style="color:black">>
wrote:</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><span style="color:black">Oh st simpkicissismus.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><span style="color:black"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><span style="color:black">Symbolic neurons have connections with each other. Each symbol stands for one pattern. They also have connections with their feature patterns. But we compute with the symbolic neurons alone. There are no examples given for that.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><span style="color:black"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><span style="color:black">So by computing with symbolic neurons we can use exact reasoning. But when we want to know the meaning of a symbol we can then turn to their features. The clever part - since you have trouble reading - is that we can use only the
symbolic neurons, we do not ha e to stimulate them in a way that their feature parts become active. In that case, 1 symbol, 1 neuron. </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p><b><span style="color:black">From:</span></b><span style="color:black"> Connectionists <</span><u><span style="color:blue"><a href="mailto:connectionists-bounces@mailman.srv.cs.cmu.edu">connectionists-bounces@mailman.srv.cs.cmu.edu</a></span></u><span style="color:black">>
on behalf of Gabriele Scheler <</span><u><span style="color:blue"><a href="mailto:gscheler@gmail.com">gscheler@gmail.com</a></span></u><span style="color:black">><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, June 10, 2024 8:03 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> </span><u><span style="color:blue"><a href="mailto:connectionists@mailman.srv.cs.cmu.edu">connectionists@mailman.srv.cs.cmu.edu</a></span></u><span style="color:black"> <</span><u><span style="color:blue"><a href="mailto:connectionists@mailman.srv.cs.cmu.edu">connectionists@mailman.srv.cs.cmu.edu</a></span></u><span style="color:black">><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Connectionists: Ensemble computing</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p>This paper may be relevant to the discussion on symbolic computing in the brain. <o:p></o:p></p>
<p><u><span style="color:blue"><a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2023.12.22.573036v2__;!!HXCxUKc!3XvVBOS7Ewzj9hEc7LIS4jJ1KaOBIEg96-dgQQoFBKgSXwmbWIv9bbBw_q5aEBIrkXofN97mq1r_Tw$">https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2023.12.22.573036v2</a></span></u><o:p></o:p></p>
<p> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p>It leverages ideas about ensembles in the brain and outlines a basic scheme for symbolic abstraction .<o:p></o:p></p>
<p> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p>Gabriele<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>--<o:p></o:p></p>
<p> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p>Dr. Gabriele Scheler<br>
Carl Correns Foundation for Mathematical Biology<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>1030 Judson Dr<br>
Mountain View, CA 94040 <o:p></o:p></p>
<p><u><span style="color:blue"><a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__http:/www.theoretical-biology.org__;!!HXCxUKc!3XvVBOS7Ewzj9hEc7LIS4jJ1KaOBIEg96-dgQQoFBKgSXwmbWIv9bbBw_q5aEBIrkXofN95zer6I-w$">https://www.theoretical-biology.org</a></span></u><o:p></o:p></p>
<p> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p>Please re-send an email if I fail to respond.<o:p></o:p></p>
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