<div dir="auto">Please just stay on task and consider the gist of my argument. Not interested in this back n forth which seems pointless and if anything detrimental. Have a nice day.đ<br clear="all"><br clear="all"><div><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_signature" data-smartmail="gmail_signature">Sent from my iPhone </div></div></div><div><br></div><div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Fri, Feb 16, 2024 at 1:58âŻPM Gary Marcus <<a href="mailto:gary.marcus@nyu.edu">gary.marcus@nyu.edu</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="auto"><div dir="ltr"></div><div dir="ltr">Wow. If you going to back to podcasts (not written articles, book chatpers etc) from 2014, you are desperate. In fairness,</div><div dir="ltr">a. You are going to have to be more specific about what goalposts you even mean there? (I donât have time to listen to 10-year old podcasts). What <i>exactly </i>did I say there that you object to exactly? I NEVER endorsed the Turing Test, so far as I can recall. Always thought it was a lousy test for intelligence.</div><div dir="ltr">b. You are going to  have hold Hinton accountable for the 2016 prediction that we should stop training radiologists. (We canât have double standards here.)</div><div dir="ltr">c. You are going to have hold Lecun responsible for saying last week that â We don't know how to do this properly. It doesn't work for video. What works for text doesnât work for video. And the only technique so far that has a chance of working for video is a new architecture that I've called JEPA...â, with Sora beating that a week later. (Again, we canât have double standards here.)</div><div dir="ltr">d. Specifically  on the subject of alternatives to Turing, I proposed something I call the <a href="https://www.newyorker.com/tech/annals-of-technology/what-comes-after-the-turing-test" target="_blank">comprehension challenge in 2014 </a>in the New Yorker and stand by it. As impressive as the newGemini is, the only video test they demoâd (Buster Keaton) did not have audio as part of the input. In their own new long-duration task (details not disclosed; maybe mostly be memorization rather than the kind of inferences they described) they were only at 60%. My prediction that test would be hard; goal posts on that havenât changed.</div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">Gary </div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr"><br><blockquote type="cite">On Feb 16, 2024, at 11:40, Keith Lambert <<a href="mailto:keithlambert75@gmail.com" target="_blank">keithlambert75@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br><br></blockquote></div><blockquote type="cite"><div dir="ltr">ï»ż</div></blockquote></div><div dir="auto"><blockquote type="cite"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="auto">Fair point and Iâll try to do better. That being said, this entire talk is filled with goal post shifting examples. I mean you literally talk about creating a sequel to the Turing test, which would be definitionally a goal post shift, but I donât want to get mired down in thisâŠ.I believe my points stand regardless and should be the point of the discourse. To a better understanding for us all. </div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto"><div><a href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.econtalk.org_gary-2Dmarcus-2Don-2Dthe-2Dfuture-2Dof-2Dartificial-2Dintelligence-2Dand-2Dthe-2Dbrain_&d=DwMFaQ&c=slrrB7dE8n7gBJbeO0g-IQ&r=wQR1NePCSj6dOGDD0r6B5Kn1fcNaTMg7tARe7TdEDqQ&m=yuIE75RLOV4WpTZyPMpG1iqqm6fUiuekP0pq6pvYCBgMpRpDpjTVMVwHHx4cGlxK&s=KvMcF4lKIQLr2T4Irs4u77l569m2e2WMW5E9zBa6Sog&e=" target="_blank">https://www.econtalk.org/gary-marcus-on-the-future-of-artificial-intelligence-and-the-brain/</a></div><br clear="all"><br clear="all"><div dir="auto"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_signature" data-smartmail="gmail_signature">Sent from my iPhone </div></div></div><div><br></div><div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Fri, Feb 16, 2024 at 11:15âŻAM Gary Marcus <<a href="mailto:gary.marcus@nyu.edu" target="_blank">gary.marcus@nyu.edu</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">â Too much negativity and vitriol around this IMHOâ from a guy who opens his missive with an accusation of goalpost shifting that is supported by not a single quotation.<br>
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The level of discourse here leaves a lot to be desired. <br>
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> On Feb 16, 2024, at 8:56âŻAM, Keith Lambert <<a href="mailto:keithlambert75@gmail.com" target="_blank">keithlambert75@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
> <br>
> Too much negativity and vitriol around this IMHO<br>
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