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Dear Jonathan, thank you for your discussion.<br>
<br>
A good scientist should also be objective. <br>
<br>
Winston Churchill played a big role in World War II, and then wrote
the history<br>
of the war. He won Nobel prize in literature for his writings. <br>
<br>
Zhaoping<br>
<br>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 27/01/2023 10:18, Jonathan Shapiro
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:LO4P265MB4196D946281DC9246AE1CA0BF1CF9@LO4P265MB4196.GBRP265.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM">
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<div class="elementToProof"><span style="color:rgb(36, 36,
36);font-size:14.6667px;background-color:rgb(255, 255,
255);display:inline !important" class="ContentPasted0">"I
believe that good scientists are also good historians of
science, or</span><br style="color:rgb(36, 36,
36);font-size:14.6667px;background-color:rgb(255, 255, 255)"
class="ContentPasted0">
</div>
<div class="elementToProof"><span style="color:rgb(36, 36,
36);font-size:14.6667px;background-color:rgb(255, 255,
255);display:inline !important" class="ContentPasted0">at
least want to know what happened in the past in their field.</span><br
style="color:rgb(36, 36,
36);font-size:14.6667px;background-color:rgb(255, 255, 255)"
class="ContentPasted0">
<span style="color:rgb(36, 36,
36);font-size:14.6667px;background-color:rgb(255, 255,
255);display:inline !important" class="ContentPasted0">Being a
good scientist helps one to be a better historian, example:</span><br
style="color:rgb(36, 36,
36);font-size:14.6667px;background-color:rgb(255, 255, 255)"
class="ContentPasted0">
<span style="color:rgb(36, 36,
36);font-size:14.6667px;background-color:rgb(255, 255,
255);display:inline !important" class="ContentPasted0">Abraham
Pais, so the best historians of science</span><br
style="color:rgb(36, 36,
36);font-size:14.6667px;background-color:rgb(255, 255, 255)"
class="ContentPasted0">
</div>
<div class="elementToProof"><span style="color:rgb(36, 36,
36);font-size:14.6667px;background-color:rgb(255, 255,
255);display:inline !important" class="ContentPasted0">must be
good scientists."</span><br>
</div>
<div class="elementToProof"><span style="color:rgb(36, 36,
36);font-size:14.6667px;background-color:rgb(255, 255,
255);display:inline !important" class="ContentPasted0"><br>
</span></div>
<div class="elementToProof"><span style="color:rgb(36, 36,
36);font-size:14.6667px;background-color:rgb(255, 255,
255);display:inline !important" class="ContentPasted0">That is
an interesting idea, Professor Zhaoping. But, doesn't a
historian need objectivity? When a scientist writes the
history of the science which they worked in and contributed
to, there could be a bias. Even when their contributions are
many. There could be a temptation to write their competitors
out of the history or make claims beyond what they had done.
Maybe the best historians of science understand the science,
but whose contributions are to understanding its history.</span></div>
<div class="elementToProof"><span style="color:rgb(36, 36,
36);font-size:14.6667px;background-color:rgb(255, 255,
255);display:inline !important" class="ContentPasted0"><br>
</span></div>
<div class="elementToProof"><span style="color:rgb(36, 36,
36);font-size:14.6667px;background-color:rgb(255, 255,
255);display:inline !important" class="ContentPasted0">Jonathan
Shapiro</span></div>
<div class="elementToProof"><span style="color:rgb(36, 36,
36);font-size:14.6667px;background-color:rgb(255, 255,
255);display:inline !important" class="ContentPasted0">Department
of Computer Science</span></div>
<div class="elementToProof"><span style="color:rgb(36, 36,
36);font-size:14.6667px;background-color:rgb(255, 255,
255);display:inline !important" class="ContentPasted0">University
of Manchester</span></div>
<hr style="display:inline-block;width:98%" tabindex="-1">
<div id="divRplyFwdMsg" dir="ltr"><font style="font-size:11pt"
face="Calibri, sans-serif" color="#000000"><b>From:</b>
Connectionists
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:connectionists-bounces@mailman.srv.cs.cmu.edu"><connectionists-bounces@mailman.srv.cs.cmu.edu></a> on
behalf of Zhaoping Li <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:li.zhaoping@tuebingen.mpg.de"><li.zhaoping@tuebingen.mpg.de></a><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, January 26, 2023 10:02 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:connectionists@mailman.srv.cs.cmu.edu">connectionists@mailman.srv.cs.cmu.edu</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:connectionists@mailman.srv.cs.cmu.edu"><connectionists@mailman.srv.cs.cmu.edu></a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: Connectionists: ?==?utf-8?q? Annotated
History of Modern AI and Deep Learning</font>
<div> </div>
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<div class="BodyFragment"><font size="2"><span
style="font-size:11pt;">
<div class="PlainText">I believe that good scientists are
also good historians of science, or
<br>
at least want to know what happened in the past in their
field.<br>
Being a good scientist helps one to be a better historian,
example: <br>
Abraham Pais, so the best historians of science<br>
must be good scientists.<br>
<br>
I am interested in, and am very grateful to colleagues who
help us to <br>
learn more about, the history of the field.<br>
<br>
Zhaoping<br>
<br>
--<br>
Li Zhaoping Ph.D.<br>
Prof. of Cognitive Science, University of Tuebingen<br>
Head of Dept of Sensory and Sensorimotor Systems,<br>
Max Planck Institute of Biological Cybernetics<br>
Author of "Understanding vision: theory, models, and
data", Oxford University Press, 2014<br>
<a href="http://www.lizhaoping.org" moz-do-not-send="true">www.lizhaoping.org</a><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
On 1/25/23 21:06, Claudius Gros wrote:<br>
> It is actually interesting. In other fields, like
physics,<br>
> there is a division of labor:<br>
><br>
> - scientist, doing the heavy lifting, and<br>
> - historians, trying to figure out the history of the
field.<br>
><br>
> It is quite amusing, that this seems to be different
in<br>
> machine learning. Some scientists want to be both!<br>
><br>
> Claudius<br>
> <br>
> <br>
> On Wednesday, January 25, 2023 19:09 CET, Stephen
José Hanson <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:jose@rubic.rutgers.edu"><jose@rubic.rutgers.edu></a> wrote:<br>
> <br>
>> Well he mentions Legendre, Gauss and the Big
Bang.. so no research claims in those areas..<br>
>><br>
>> Steve<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> On 1/25/23 11:51, Richard Loosemore wrote:<br>
>><br>
>> Please, somebody reassure me that this isn't just
another attempt to rewrite history so that Schmidhuber's
lab invented almost everything.<br>
>><br>
>> Because at first glance, that's what it looks
like.<br>
>><br>
>> Richard<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> --<br>
>> Stephen José Hanson<br>
>> Professor, Psychology Department<br>
>> Director, RUBIC (Rutgers University Brain Imaging
Center)<br>
>> Member, Executive Committee, RUCCS<br>
> <br>
><br>
<br>
</div>
</span></font></div>
</blockquote>
<br>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
Li Zhaoping, Ph.D.
Prof. of Cognitive Science, University of Tuebingen
Head of Department of Sensory and Sensorimotor Systems,
Max Planck Institute for Biological Cybernetics
Author of "Understanding vision: theory, models, and data", Oxford University Press, 2014
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.lizhaoping.org">www.lizhaoping.org</a></pre>
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