<html xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:w="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:m="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/2004/12/omml" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40">
<head>
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii">
<meta name="Generator" content="Microsoft Word 15 (filtered medium)">
<style><!--
/* Font Definitions */
@font-face
{font-family:Wingdings;
panose-1:5 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0;}
@font-face
{font-family:"Cambria Math";
panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 4 6 3 2 4;}
@font-face
{font-family:Calibri;
panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;}
@font-face
{font-family:"Segoe UI Light";
panose-1:2 11 5 2 4 2 4 2 2 3;}
@font-face
{font-family:"Segoe UI";
panose-1:2 11 5 2 4 2 4 2 2 3;}
/* Style Definitions */
p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal
{margin:0in;
font-size:11.0pt;
font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;}
a:link, span.MsoHyperlink
{mso-style-priority:99;
color:blue;
text-decoration:underline;}
span.EmailStyle19
{mso-style-type:personal-reply;
font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;
color:windowtext;}
.MsoChpDefault
{mso-style-type:export-only;
font-size:10.0pt;}
@page WordSection1
{size:8.5in 11.0in;
margin:1.0in 1.0in 1.0in 1.0in;}
div.WordSection1
{page:WordSection1;}
/* List Definitions */
@list l0
{mso-list-id:1139685643;
mso-list-template-ids:501107840;}
@list l0:level1
{mso-level-number-format:bullet;
mso-level-text:\F0B7;
mso-level-tab-stop:.5in;
mso-level-number-position:left;
text-indent:-.25in;
mso-ansi-font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Symbol;}
@list l0:level2
{mso-level-number-format:bullet;
mso-level-text:o;
mso-level-tab-stop:1.0in;
mso-level-number-position:left;
text-indent:-.25in;
mso-ansi-font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Courier New";
mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman";}
@list l0:level3
{mso-level-number-format:bullet;
mso-level-text:\F0A7;
mso-level-tab-stop:1.5in;
mso-level-number-position:left;
text-indent:-.25in;
mso-ansi-font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Wingdings;}
@list l0:level4
{mso-level-number-format:bullet;
mso-level-text:\F0A7;
mso-level-tab-stop:2.0in;
mso-level-number-position:left;
text-indent:-.25in;
mso-ansi-font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Wingdings;}
@list l0:level5
{mso-level-number-format:bullet;
mso-level-text:\F0A7;
mso-level-tab-stop:2.5in;
mso-level-number-position:left;
text-indent:-.25in;
mso-ansi-font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Wingdings;}
@list l0:level6
{mso-level-number-format:bullet;
mso-level-text:\F0A7;
mso-level-tab-stop:3.0in;
mso-level-number-position:left;
text-indent:-.25in;
mso-ansi-font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Wingdings;}
@list l0:level7
{mso-level-number-format:bullet;
mso-level-text:\F0A7;
mso-level-tab-stop:3.5in;
mso-level-number-position:left;
text-indent:-.25in;
mso-ansi-font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Wingdings;}
@list l0:level8
{mso-level-number-format:bullet;
mso-level-text:\F0A7;
mso-level-tab-stop:4.0in;
mso-level-number-position:left;
text-indent:-.25in;
mso-ansi-font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Wingdings;}
@list l0:level9
{mso-level-number-format:bullet;
mso-level-text:\F0A7;
mso-level-tab-stop:4.5in;
mso-level-number-position:left;
text-indent:-.25in;
mso-ansi-font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Wingdings;}
@list l1
{mso-list-id:1161314764;
mso-list-template-ids:-706545270;}
@list l1:level1
{mso-level-number-format:bullet;
mso-level-text:\F0B7;
mso-level-tab-stop:.5in;
mso-level-number-position:left;
text-indent:-.25in;
mso-ansi-font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Symbol;}
@list l1:level2
{mso-level-number-format:bullet;
mso-level-text:o;
mso-level-tab-stop:1.0in;
mso-level-number-position:left;
text-indent:-.25in;
mso-ansi-font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Courier New";
mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman";}
@list l1:level3
{mso-level-number-format:bullet;
mso-level-text:\F0A7;
mso-level-tab-stop:1.5in;
mso-level-number-position:left;
text-indent:-.25in;
mso-ansi-font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Wingdings;}
@list l1:level4
{mso-level-number-format:bullet;
mso-level-text:\F0A7;
mso-level-tab-stop:2.0in;
mso-level-number-position:left;
text-indent:-.25in;
mso-ansi-font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Wingdings;}
@list l1:level5
{mso-level-number-format:bullet;
mso-level-text:\F0A7;
mso-level-tab-stop:2.5in;
mso-level-number-position:left;
text-indent:-.25in;
mso-ansi-font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Wingdings;}
@list l1:level6
{mso-level-number-format:bullet;
mso-level-text:\F0A7;
mso-level-tab-stop:3.0in;
mso-level-number-position:left;
text-indent:-.25in;
mso-ansi-font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Wingdings;}
@list l1:level7
{mso-level-number-format:bullet;
mso-level-text:\F0A7;
mso-level-tab-stop:3.5in;
mso-level-number-position:left;
text-indent:-.25in;
mso-ansi-font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Wingdings;}
@list l1:level8
{mso-level-number-format:bullet;
mso-level-text:\F0A7;
mso-level-tab-stop:4.0in;
mso-level-number-position:left;
text-indent:-.25in;
mso-ansi-font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Wingdings;}
@list l1:level9
{mso-level-number-format:bullet;
mso-level-text:\F0A7;
mso-level-tab-stop:4.5in;
mso-level-number-position:left;
text-indent:-.25in;
mso-ansi-font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Wingdings;}
@list l2
{mso-list-id:1319731142;
mso-list-template-ids:836519056;}
@list l2:level1
{mso-level-number-format:bullet;
mso-level-text:\F0B7;
mso-level-tab-stop:.5in;
mso-level-number-position:left;
text-indent:-.25in;
mso-ansi-font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Symbol;}
@list l2:level2
{mso-level-number-format:bullet;
mso-level-text:o;
mso-level-tab-stop:1.0in;
mso-level-number-position:left;
text-indent:-.25in;
mso-ansi-font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Courier New";
mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman";}
@list l2:level3
{mso-level-number-format:bullet;
mso-level-text:\F0A7;
mso-level-tab-stop:1.5in;
mso-level-number-position:left;
text-indent:-.25in;
mso-ansi-font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Wingdings;}
@list l2:level4
{mso-level-number-format:bullet;
mso-level-text:\F0A7;
mso-level-tab-stop:2.0in;
mso-level-number-position:left;
text-indent:-.25in;
mso-ansi-font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Wingdings;}
@list l2:level5
{mso-level-number-format:bullet;
mso-level-text:\F0A7;
mso-level-tab-stop:2.5in;
mso-level-number-position:left;
text-indent:-.25in;
mso-ansi-font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Wingdings;}
@list l2:level6
{mso-level-number-format:bullet;
mso-level-text:\F0A7;
mso-level-tab-stop:3.0in;
mso-level-number-position:left;
text-indent:-.25in;
mso-ansi-font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Wingdings;}
@list l2:level7
{mso-level-number-format:bullet;
mso-level-text:\F0A7;
mso-level-tab-stop:3.5in;
mso-level-number-position:left;
text-indent:-.25in;
mso-ansi-font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Wingdings;}
@list l2:level8
{mso-level-number-format:bullet;
mso-level-text:\F0A7;
mso-level-tab-stop:4.0in;
mso-level-number-position:left;
text-indent:-.25in;
mso-ansi-font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Wingdings;}
@list l2:level9
{mso-level-number-format:bullet;
mso-level-text:\F0A7;
mso-level-tab-stop:4.5in;
mso-level-number-position:left;
text-indent:-.25in;
mso-ansi-font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Wingdings;}
@list l3
{mso-list-id:1463032874;
mso-list-template-ids:1306676804;}
@list l3:level1
{mso-level-number-format:bullet;
mso-level-text:\F0B7;
mso-level-tab-stop:.5in;
mso-level-number-position:left;
text-indent:-.25in;
mso-ansi-font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Symbol;}
@list l3:level2
{mso-level-number-format:bullet;
mso-level-text:o;
mso-level-tab-stop:1.0in;
mso-level-number-position:left;
text-indent:-.25in;
mso-ansi-font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Courier New";
mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman";}
@list l3:level3
{mso-level-number-format:bullet;
mso-level-text:\F0A7;
mso-level-tab-stop:1.5in;
mso-level-number-position:left;
text-indent:-.25in;
mso-ansi-font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Wingdings;}
@list l3:level4
{mso-level-number-format:bullet;
mso-level-text:\F0A7;
mso-level-tab-stop:2.0in;
mso-level-number-position:left;
text-indent:-.25in;
mso-ansi-font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Wingdings;}
@list l3:level5
{mso-level-number-format:bullet;
mso-level-text:\F0A7;
mso-level-tab-stop:2.5in;
mso-level-number-position:left;
text-indent:-.25in;
mso-ansi-font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Wingdings;}
@list l3:level6
{mso-level-number-format:bullet;
mso-level-text:\F0A7;
mso-level-tab-stop:3.0in;
mso-level-number-position:left;
text-indent:-.25in;
mso-ansi-font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Wingdings;}
@list l3:level7
{mso-level-number-format:bullet;
mso-level-text:\F0A7;
mso-level-tab-stop:3.5in;
mso-level-number-position:left;
text-indent:-.25in;
mso-ansi-font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Wingdings;}
@list l3:level8
{mso-level-number-format:bullet;
mso-level-text:\F0A7;
mso-level-tab-stop:4.0in;
mso-level-number-position:left;
text-indent:-.25in;
mso-ansi-font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Wingdings;}
@list l3:level9
{mso-level-number-format:bullet;
mso-level-text:\F0A7;
mso-level-tab-stop:4.5in;
mso-level-number-position:left;
text-indent:-.25in;
mso-ansi-font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Wingdings;}
ol
{margin-bottom:0in;}
ul
{margin-bottom:0in;}
--></style><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapedefaults v:ext="edit" spidmax="1026" />
</xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapelayout v:ext="edit">
<o:idmap v:ext="edit" data="1" />
</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]-->
</head>
<body lang="EN-US" link="blue" vlink="purple" style="word-wrap:break-word">
<div class="WordSection1">
<p class="MsoNormal">I am not an expert on single cell recordings, how they are done, etc. But there is a long history of single cell recordings. And some of those studies led to Nobel prizes. Here’s a list of some from Wikipedia:
<a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Single-unit_recording">Single-unit recording - Wikipedia</a><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<ul style="margin-top:0in" type="disc">
<li class="MsoNormal" style="color:#202122;mso-list:l1 level1 lfo1;background:white">
1928: One of the earliest accounts of being able to record from the nervous system was by <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edgar_Adrian" title="Edgar Adrian"><span style="color:#0645AD">Edgar Adrian</span></a> in his 1928 publication "The Basis of Sensation".
In this, he describes his recordings of electrical discharges in single nerve fibers using a <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lippmann_electrometer" title="Lippmann electrometer"><span style="color:#0645AD">Lippmann electrometer</span></a>. He won the
<span style="background:yellow;mso-highlight:yellow">Nobel Prize in 1932</span> for his work revealing the function of neurons.<sup><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Single-unit_recording#cite_note-11"><span style="color:#0645AD">[11]</span></a></sup><o:p></o:p></li><li class="MsoNormal" style="color:#202122;mso-list:l1 level1 lfo1;background:white">
1957: <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Carew_Eccles" title="John Carew Eccles"><span style="color:#0645AD">John Eccles</span></a> used intracellular single-unit recording to study synaptic mechanisms in motoneurons (for which he won the
<span style="background:yellow;mso-highlight:yellow">Nobel Prize in 1963</span>).<o:p></o:p></li><li class="MsoNormal" style="color:#202122;mso-list:l1 level1 lfo1;background:white">
1959: Studies by <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_H._Hubel" title="David H. Hubel"><span style="color:#0645AD">David H. Hubel</span></a> and <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torsten_Wiesel" title="Torsten Wiesel"><span style="color:#0645AD">Torsten
Wiesel</span></a>. They used single neuron recordings to map the visual cortex in unanesthesized, unrestrained cats using tungsten electrodes. This work won them the
<span style="background:yellow;mso-highlight:yellow">Nobel Prize in 1981</span> for information processing in the visual system.<o:p></o:p></li><li class="MsoNormal" style="color:#202122;mso-list:l1 level1 lfo1;background:white">
<span style="color:black">Moser and O’Keefe Nobel prize (grid and place cells): <span style="background:yellow;mso-highlight:yellow">
<a href="https://www.nobelprize.org/prizes/medicine/2014/press-release/">The 2014 Nobel Prize in Physiology or Medicine - Press release</a></span></span><span style="background:yellow;mso-highlight:yellow"><o:p></o:p></span></li></ul>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in;background:white"><span style="color:#202122"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="color:#202122">So you are questioning some ground-breaking work in this area. I had contact with Horace Barlow, of Cambridge University and also the great grandson of Darwin, who passed away last year.
He came to visit me in Phoenix in 2012 after a private argument with Walter Freeman, Christof Koch and probably 20 to 25 other people on the concept cell findings by Koch’s team at Caltech. Barlow is also one of the pioneers of neuroscience and in single cell
recordings:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:1.2pt;margin-left:55.2pt;text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l3 level1 lfo4;background:white">
<![if !supportLists]><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Symbol;color:#202122"><span style="mso-list:Ignore">·<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span></span><![endif]><i><span style="color:#202122">Barlow H. B. (1972). "Single units and sensation: A neuron doctrine for perceptual psychology?". Perception. <b>1</b> (4): 371–394. <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doi_(identifier)" title="Doi (identifier)"><span style="color:#0645AD">doi</span></a>:<a href="https://doi.org/10.1068%2Fp010371"><span style="color:#3366BB">10.1068/p010371</span></a>. <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PMID_(identifier)" title="PMID (identifier)"><span style="color:#0645AD">PMID</span></a> <a href="https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/4377168"><span style="color:#3366BB">4377168</span></a>. <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S2CID_(identifier)" title="S2CID (identifier)"><span style="color:#0645AD">S2CID</span></a> <a href="https://api.semanticscholar.org/CorpusID:17487970"><span style="color:#3366BB">17487970</span></a>.</span></i><span style="color:#202122"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="color:#202122"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="color:#202122">I will leave it at that.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="color:#202122"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">All the best,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Asim Roy<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Professor, Information Systems<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Arizona State University<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><a href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__lifeboat.com_ex_bios.asim.roy&d=DwMFaQ&c=slrrB7dE8n7gBJbeO0g-IQ&r=wQR1NePCSj6dOGDD0r6B5Kn1fcNaTMg7tARe7TdEDqQ&m=waSKY67JF57IZXg30ysFB_R7OG9zoQwFwxyps6FbTa1Zh5mttxRot_t4N7mn68Pj&s=oDRJmXX22O8NcfqyLjyu4Ajmt8pcHWquTxYjeWahfuw&e=" target="_blank">Lifeboat
Foundation Bios: Professor Asim Roy</a><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><a href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__isearch.asu.edu_profile_9973&d=DwMFaQ&c=slrrB7dE8n7gBJbeO0g-IQ&r=wQR1NePCSj6dOGDD0r6B5Kn1fcNaTMg7tARe7TdEDqQ&m=waSKY67JF57IZXg30ysFB_R7OG9zoQwFwxyps6FbTa1Zh5mttxRot_t4N7mn68Pj&s=jCesWT7oGgX76_y7PFh4cCIQ-Ife-esGblJyrBiDlro&e=" target="_blank">Asim
Roy | iSearch (asu.edu)</a><span style="color:#202122"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> Connectionists <connectionists-bounces@mailman.srv.cs.cmu.edu>
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Rothganger, Fredrick<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, June 15, 2022 4:27 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> connectionists@mailman.srv.cs.cmu.edu<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Connectionists: Evidence for single-cell abstractions in the brain<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Asim wrote: "It’s important to understand that there is plenty of neurophysiological evidence for abstractions at the single cell level in the brain."<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">We should be cautious about how we interpret electrophysiological data. They are extremely sparse readings taken at random locations in a complex circuit. That some subset of them correlate with
certain stimuli does not necessarily make them a representation of those stimuli. See
<a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/www.biorxiv.org/content/biorxiv/early/2016/05/26/055624.full.pdf__;!!IKRxdwAv5BmarQ!YMM9p0iNH0rRMjQog4wD9rAk-_YGtmnWUHaIzdYvhON1FqN7R3dgsI6Y4KYECJy-DigrDUdSgaXyTeKJpQ$">
https://www.biorxiv.org/content/biorxiv/early/2016/05/26/055624.full.pdf</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">(This comment does not represent an opinion about the larger discussion in which Asim's statement was made.)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<div style="margin-top:12.0pt;margin-bottom:12.0pt;min-width: 424px" id="LPBorder_GTaHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuYmlvcnhpdi5vcmcvY29udGVudC9iaW9yeGl2L2Vhcmx5LzIwMTYvMDUvMjYvMDU1NjI0LmZ1bGwucGRm">
<table class="MsoNormalTable" border="1" cellpadding="0" width="100%" style="width:100.0%;border:solid #C8C8C8 1.0pt">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td width="100%" valign="top" style="width:100.0%;border:none;padding:9.0pt 27.0pt 9.0pt 9.0pt">
<div style="margin-right:6.0pt;margin-bottom:9.0pt" id="LPTitle446345">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:16.0pt;font-family:"Segoe UI Light",sans-serif"><a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/www.biorxiv.org/content/biorxiv/early/2016/05/26/055624.full.pdf__;!!IKRxdwAv5BmarQ!YMM9p0iNH0rRMjQog4wD9rAk-_YGtmnWUHaIzdYvhON1FqN7R3dgsI6Y4KYECJy-DigrDUdSgaXyTeKJpQ$" target="_blank"><span style="text-decoration:none">Could
a neuroscientist understand a microprocessor? - bioRxiv</span></a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div style="margin-right:6.0pt;margin-bottom:9.0pt;max-height: 100px;overflow:hidden" id="LPDescription446345">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Segoe UI",sans-serif;color:#666666">Could a neuroscientist understand a microprocessor? Figure 1: Example behaviors. We use three classical video games as example behaviors for our model organism
– (A) Don-key Kong (1981), (B) Space Invaders (1978), and (C) Pitfall(1981).<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div id="LPMetadata446345">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Segoe UI",sans-serif;color:#A6A6A6"><a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__http:/www.biorxiv.org__;!!IKRxdwAv5BmarQ!YMM9p0iNH0rRMjQog4wD9rAk-_YGtmnWUHaIzdYvhON1FqN7R3dgsI6Y4KYECJy-DigrDUdSgaUq9P7G4Q$">www.biorxiv.org</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
</body>
</html>