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Dear Steve and Gary:</div>
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This is how I see (try to understand) consciousness and the related terms:
<div>(Our) consciousness seems to be related to the close-to-deterministic nature of the episodes on from few hundred millisecond to a few second domain. Control instructions may leave our brain 200 ms earlier than the action starts and they become conscious
only by that time. In addition, observations of those may also be delayed by a similar amount. (It then follows that the launching of the control actions is not conscious and -- therefore -- free will can be debated in this very limited context.) On the other
hand, model-based synchronization is necessary for timely observation, planning, decision making, and execution in a distributed and slow computational system. If this model-based synchronization is not working properly, then the observation of the world breaks
and schizophrenic symptoms appear. As an example, individuals with pronounced schizotypal traits are particularly successful in self-tickling (source: https://philpapers.org/rec/LEMIWP, and a discussion on Asperger and schizophrenia: https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fpsyt.2020.503462/full)
a manifestation of improper binding. The internal model enables and the synchronization requires the internal model and thus a certain level of consciousness can appear in a time interval around the actual time instant and its length depends on the short-term
memory.</div>
Other issues, like separating the self from the rest of the world are more closely related to the soft/hard style interventions (as called in the recent deep learning literature), i.e., those components (features) that can be modified/controlled, e.g., color
and speed, and the ones that are Lego-like and can be separated/amputed/occluded/added.<br>
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Best,</div>
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Andras</div>
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<span style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif">------------------------------------</span></p>
<div>Andras Lorincz<br>
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<div>http://nipg.inf.elte.hu/<br>
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<div>Fellow of the European Association for Artificial Intelligence<br>
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<div>https://scholar.google.com/citations?user=EjETXQkAAAAJ&hl=en<br>
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<div>Department of Artificial Intelligence<br>
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<div>Faculty of Informatics<br>
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<div>Eotvos Lorand University<br>
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<span>Budapest, Hungary</span>
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<div id="divRplyFwdMsg" dir="ltr"><font face="Calibri, sans-serif" color="#000000" style="font-size:11pt"><b>From:</b> Connectionists <connectionists-bounces@mailman.srv.cs.cmu.edu> on behalf of Stephen José Hanson <jose@rubic.rutgers.edu><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, February 14, 2022 8:30 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Gary Marcus <gary.marcus@nyu.edu><br>
<b>Cc:</b> Connectionists <connectionists@cs.cmu.edu><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: Connectionists: Weird beliefs about consciousness</font>
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<p><font size="+1">Gary, these weren't criterion. Let me try again.<br>
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<p><font size="+1">I wasn't talking about wake-sleep cycles... I was talking about being awake or asleep and the transition that ensues..</font></p>
<p><font size="+1">Rooba's don't sleep.. they turn off, I have two of them. They turn on once (1) their batteries are recharged (2) a timer has been set for being turned on.</font></p>
<p><font size="+1">GPT3 is essentially a CYC that actually works.. by reading Wikipedia (which of course is a terribly biased sample).</font></p>
<p><font size="+1">I was indicating the difference between implicit and explicit learning/problem solving. Implicit learning/memory is unconscious and similar to a habit.. (good or bad).</font></p>
<p><font size="+1">I believe that when someone says "is gpt3 conscious?" they are asking: is gpt3 self-aware? Roombas know about vacuuming and they are unconscious.</font></p>
<p><font size="+1">S<br>
</font></p>
<div class="x_moz-cite-prefix">On 2/14/22 12:45 PM, Gary Marcus wrote:<br>
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<div dir="ltr">Stephen,</div>
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<div dir="ltr">On criteria (1)-(3), a high-end, mapping-equippped Roomba is far more plausible as a consciousness than GPT-3.</div>
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<div dir="ltr">1. The Roomba has a clearly defined wake-sleep cycle; GPT does not.</div>
<div dir="ltr">2. Roomba makes choices based on an explicit representation of its location relative to a mapped space. GPT lacks any consistent reflection of self; eg if you ask it, as I have, if you are you person, and then ask if it is a computer, it’s liable
to say yes to both, showing no stable knowledge of self.</div>
<div dir="ltr">3. Roomba has explicit, declarative knowledge eg of walls and other boundaries, as well its own location. GPT has no systematically interrogable explicit representations.</div>
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<div dir="ltr">All this is said with tongue lodged partway in cheek, but I honestly don’t see what criterion would lead anyone to believe that GPT is a more plausible candidate for consciousness than any other AI program out there. </div>
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<div dir="ltr">ELIZA long ago showed that you could produce fluent speech that was mildly contextually relevant, and even convincing to the untutored; just because GPT is a better version of that trick doesn’t mean it’s any more conscious.</div>
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<div dir="ltr">Gary</div>
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<blockquote type="cite">On Feb 14, 2022, at 08:56, Stephen José Hanson <a class="x_moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:jose@rubic.rutgers.edu">
<jose@rubic.rutgers.edu></a> wrote:<br>
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<p><font size="+1">this is a great list of behavior.. <br>
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<p><font size="+1">Some biologically might be termed reflexive, taxes, classically conditioned, implicit (memory/learning)... all however would not be<br>
conscious in the several senses: (1) wakefulness-- sleep (2) self aware (3) explicit/declarative.</font></p>
<p><font size="+1">I think the term is used very loosely, and I believe what GPT3 and other AI are hoping to show signs of is "self-awareness"..</font></p>
<p><font size="+1">In response to : "why are you doing that?", "What are you doing now", "what will you be doing in 2030?"</font></p>
<p><font size="+1">Steve<br>
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<p><font size="+1"><br>
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<div class="x_moz-cite-prefix">On 2/14/22 10:46 AM, Iam Palatnik wrote:<br>
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<div>A somewhat related question, just out of curiosity.</div>
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<div>Imagine the following:</div>
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<div>- An automatic solar panel that tracks the position of the sun.<br>
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<div>- A group of single celled microbes with phototaxis that follow the sunlight.</div>
<div>- A jellyfish (animal without a brain) that follows/avoids the sunlight.</div>
<div>- A cockroach (animal with a brain) that avoids the sunlight.</div>
<div>- A drone with onboard AI that flies to regions of more intense sunlight to recharge its batteries.<br>
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<div>- A human that dislikes sunlight and actively avoids it.<br>
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<div>Can any of these, beside the human, be said to be aware or conscious of the sunlight, and why?</div>
<div>What is most relevant? Being a biological life form, having a brain, being able to make decisions based on the environment? Being taxonomically close to humans?<br>
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<div dir="ltr" class="x_gmail_attr">On Mon, Feb 14, 2022 at 12:06 PM Gary Marcus <<a href="mailto:gary.marcus@nyu.edu">gary.marcus@nyu.edu</a>> wrote:<br>
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Also true: Many AI researchers are very unclear about what consciousness is and also very sure that ELIZA doesn’t have it.<br>
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Neither ELIZA nor GPT-3 have<br>
- anything remotely related to embodiment<br>
- any capacity to reflect upon themselves<br>
<br>
Hypothesis: neither keyword matching nor tensor manipulation, even at scale, suffice in themselves to qualify for consciousness.<br>
<br>
- Gary<br>
<br>
> On Feb 14, 2022, at 00:24, Geoffrey Hinton <<a href="mailto:geoffrey.hinton@gmail.com" target="_blank">geoffrey.hinton@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
> <br>
> Many AI researchers are very unclear about what consciousness is and also very sure that GPT-3 doesn’t have it. It’s a strange combination.<br>
> <br>
> <br>
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