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<p><font size="+1">Mostly from an experimental point of view.
Neurologists study consciousness in patients in comas for
example, as it seems clear that while we are asleep or knocked
out through anesthesia or coma, we are not conscious. <br>
</font></p>
<p><font size="+1">Self-awareness is also a form of consciousness in
that we are paying attention to ourselves and can self-report--
emotional awareness, some individuals are not aware of their own
states and others are exquisitely aware.. and so on..</font></p>
<p><font size="+1">Mostly these are explicit (in the sense of
learning/memory) as the individuals can provide some verbal
evidence of their self-awareness (but brain imaging is plausible
here as a measure).<br>
</font></p>
<p><font size="+1">Obviously more difficult call in an AI robot,
roomba or an oyster.</font></p>
<p><font size="+1">Steve<br>
</font></p>
<p><font size="+1"><br>
</font></p>
<p><font size="+1"></font>On 2/15/22 5:34 AM, Adam Kosiorek wrote:<br>
</p>
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cite="mid:CAMu-6f+QnFwYNLC3HJne+oCv7uVVm8BNYLdgb1vHgV-0CpHx5g@mail.gmail.com">
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<div>Stephen,</div>
<div><br>
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<div>It's curious to me that wake-sleep cycles should be
included in the notion of consciousness, in the sense that I
see no problems with a conscious creature that does not sleep.
Could you tell me a little more about your thinking here?</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Thanks,<br>
</div>
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<div style="font-family:arial;font-size:small">Adam
R. Kosiorek<br>
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<br>
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<br>
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<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Tue, 15 Feb 2022 at 07:12,
Stephen José Hanson <<a
href="mailto:jose@rubic.rutgers.edu" moz-do-not-send="true">jose@rubic.rutgers.edu</a>>
wrote:<br>
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<p><font size="+1">Gary, these weren't criterion. Let
me try again.<br>
</font></p>
<p><font size="+1">I wasn't talking about wake-sleep
cycles... I was talking about being awake or asleep and
the transition that ensues..</font></p>
<p><font size="+1">Rooba's don't sleep.. they turn off, I
have two of them. They turn on once (1) their batteries
are recharged (2) a timer has been set for being turned
on.</font></p>
<p><font size="+1">GPT3 is essentially a CYC that actually
works.. by reading Wikipedia (which of course is a
terribly biased sample).</font></p>
<p><font size="+1">I was indicating the difference between
implicit and explicit learning/problem solving.
Implicit learning/memory is unconscious and similar to a
habit.. (good or bad).</font></p>
<p><font size="+1">I believe that when someone says "is gpt3
conscious?" they are asking: is gpt3 self-aware?
Roombas know about vacuuming and they are unconscious.</font></p>
<p><font size="+1">S<br>
</font></p>
<div>On 2/14/22 12:45 PM, Gary Marcus wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">Stephen,</div>
<div dir="ltr"><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">On criteria (1)-(3), a high-end,
mapping-equippped Roomba is far more plausible as a
consciousness than GPT-3.</div>
<div dir="ltr"><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">1. The Roomba has a clearly defined
wake-sleep cycle; GPT does not.</div>
<div dir="ltr">2. Roomba makes choices based on an
explicit representation of its location relative to a
mapped space. GPT lacks any consistent reflection of
self; eg if you ask it, as I have, if you are you
person, and then ask if it is a computer, it’s liable to
say yes to both, showing no stable knowledge of self.</div>
<div dir="ltr">3. Roomba has explicit, declarative
knowledge eg of walls and other boundaries, as well its
own location. GPT has no systematically interrogable
explicit representations.</div>
<div dir="ltr"><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">All this is said with tongue lodged partway
in cheek, but I honestly don’t see what criterion would
lead anyone to believe that GPT is a more plausible
candidate for consciousness than any other AI program
out there. </div>
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</div>
<div dir="ltr">ELIZA long ago showed that you could
produce fluent speech that was mildly contextually
relevant, and even convincing to the untutored; just
because GPT is a better version of that trick doesn’t
mean it’s any more conscious.</div>
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</div>
<div dir="ltr">Gary</div>
<div dir="ltr"><br>
<blockquote type="cite">On Feb 14, 2022, at 08:56,
Stephen José Hanson <a
href="mailto:jose@rubic.rutgers.edu" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"><jose@rubic.rutgers.edu></a>
wrote:<br>
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<p><font size="+1">this is a great list of behavior..
<br>
</font></p>
<p><font size="+1">Some biologically might be termed
reflexive, taxes, classically conditioned,
implicit (memory/learning)... all however would
not be<br>
conscious in the several senses: (1)
wakefulness-- sleep (2) self aware (3)
explicit/declarative.</font></p>
<p><font size="+1">I think the term is used very
loosely, and I believe what GPT3 and other AI are
hoping to show signs of is "self-awareness"..</font></p>
<p><font size="+1">In response to : "why are you
doing that?", "What are you doing now", "what
will you be doing in 2030?"</font></p>
<p><font size="+1">Steve<br>
</font></p>
<p><font size="+1"><br>
</font></p>
<div>On 2/14/22 10:46 AM, Iam Palatnik wrote:<br>
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<blockquote type="cite">
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<div>A somewhat related question, just out of
curiosity.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Imagine the following:</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>- An automatic solar panel that tracks the
position of the sun.<br>
</div>
<div>
<div>- A group of single celled microbes with
phototaxis that follow the sunlight.</div>
<div>- A jellyfish (animal without a brain) that
follows/avoids the sunlight.</div>
<div> - A cockroach (animal with a brain) that
avoids the sunlight.</div>
<div>- A drone with onboard AI that flies to
regions of more intense sunlight to recharge
its batteries.<br>
</div>
<div>- A human that dislikes sunlight and
actively avoids it.<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Can any of these, beside the human, be said
to be aware or conscious of the sunlight, and
why?</div>
<div>What is most relevant? Being a biological
life form, having a brain, being able to make
decisions based on the environment? Being
taxonomically close to humans?<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
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<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Mon, Feb 14,
2022 at 12:06 PM Gary Marcus <<a
href="mailto:gary.marcus@nyu.edu"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">gary.marcus@nyu.edu</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px
0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid
rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">Also true:
Many AI researchers are very unclear about what
consciousness is and also very sure that ELIZA
doesn’t have it.<br>
<br>
Neither ELIZA nor GPT-3 have<br>
- anything remotely related to embodiment<br>
- any capacity to reflect upon themselves<br>
<br>
Hypothesis: neither keyword matching nor tensor
manipulation, even at scale, suffice in
themselves to qualify for consciousness.<br>
<br>
- Gary<br>
<br>
> On Feb 14, 2022, at 00:24, Geoffrey Hinton
<<a href="mailto:geoffrey.hinton@gmail.com"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">geoffrey.hinton@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
> <br>
> Many AI researchers are very unclear about
what consciousness is and also very sure that
GPT-3 doesn’t have it. It’s a strange
combination.<br>
> <br>
> <br>
<br>
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<div>-- <br>
<img
src="cid:part5.7557D29B.FD43717C@rubic.rutgers.edu"
class="" border="0"></div>
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</blockquote>
<div>-- <br>
<img src="cid:part5.7557D29B.FD43717C@rubic.rutgers.edu"
class="" border="0"></div>
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</blockquote>
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<div class="moz-signature">-- <br>
<img src="cid:part5.7557D29B.FD43717C@rubic.rutgers.edu"
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