<html><head><meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body dir="auto"><div dir="ltr"></div><div dir="ltr">Try your algorithm on datasets such as this <a href="https://ai.facebook.com/blog/introducing-unidentified-video-objects-a-new-benchmark-for-open-world-object-segmentation/">https://ai.facebook.com/blog/introducing-unidentified-video-objects-a-new-benchmark-for-open-world-object-segmentation/</a></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">If you produce strong empirical results, the community will take notice.</div><div dir="ltr"><br><blockquote type="cite">On Feb 9, 2022, at 10:54 PM, Juyang Weng <juyang.weng@gmail.com> wrote:<br><br></blockquote></div><blockquote type="cite"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr">Dear Gary,<div><br></div><div>As my reply to Asim Roy indicated, the parts and whole problem that Geoff Hinton considered is ill-posed since it bypasses how a brain network segments the "whole" from 1000 parts in the cluttered scene. Only 10 parts belong to the whole.</div><div><br></div><div>The relation problem has also been solved and mathematically proven if one understands emergent universal Turing machines using a Developmental Network (DN). The solution to relation is a special case of the solution to the compositionality problem which is a special case of the emergent universal Turing machine.</div><div><br></div><div>I am not telling you "a son looks like his father because the father makes money to feed the son". The solution is supported by biology and a mathematical proof.</div><div><br>Best regards,</div><div>-John</div><div><div><br></div><div>Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2022 07:57:34 -0800<br>From: Gary Marcus <<a href="mailto:gary.marcus@nyu.edu" target="_blank">gary.marcus@nyu.edu</a>><br>To: Juyang Weng <<a href="mailto:juyang.weng@gmail.com" target="_blank">juyang.weng@gmail.com</a>><br>Cc: Post Connectionists <<a href="mailto:connectionists@mailman.srv.cs.cmu.edu" target="_blank">connectionists@mailman.srv.cs.cmu.edu</a>><br>Subject: Re: Connectionists: Stephen Hanson in conversation with Geoff<br> Hinton<br>Message-ID: <<a href="mailto:D0E77E54-78C0-4605-B40C-434E2B8F1E7C@nyu.edu" target="_blank">D0E77E54-78C0-4605-B40C-434E2B8F1E7C@nyu.edu</a>><br>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"<br><br>Dear John,<br><br>I agree with you that cluttered scenes are critical, but Geoff?s GLOM paper [<a href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.cs.toronto.edu_-7Ehinton_absps_glomfinal.pdf&d=DwMFaQ&c=slrrB7dE8n7gBJbeO0g-IQ&r=wQR1NePCSj6dOGDD0r6B5Kn1fcNaTMg7tARe7TdEDqQ&m=vYapVoZyhPR60OuW6yjYMM-tItzR4BV0x2FK5JO9Q0cIPtHR-jntdD_NVaabxTLW&s=1jut1dUDPE8YGqp6UteNK0IJ5I8lHUcPkXi5Q9DS2o8&e=" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://www.cs.toronto.edu/~hinton/absps/glomfinal.pdf</a>] might actually have some relevance. It may well be that we need to do a better job with parts and whole before we can fully address clutter, and Geoff is certainly taking that question seriously.<br><br>Geoff?s ?Stable islands of identical vectors? do sound suspiciously like symbols to me (in a good way!), but regardless, they seem to me to be a plausible candidate as a foundation for coping with clutter.<br><br>And not just cluttered scenes, but also relations between multiple objects in a scene, which is another example of the broader issue you raise, challenging for pure MLPs but critical for deeper AI.<br><br>Gary<br clear="all"><div><br></div>-- <br><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_signature" data-smartmail="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr">Juyang (John) Weng<br></div></div></div></div></div>
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