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Dear John,
<div><br>
</div>
<div>We teach a system about parts just like you would teach a kid or an adult about parts. There’s nothing “skull-closed” about it. If it was “skull-closed,” Humans would barely learn anything. And dealing with a thousand parts should not be a problem. Humans
remember more than a thousand parts. And cluttered images are not a problem. We have dealt with satellite and other cluttered images already. So we are not looking at Mickey Mouse problems.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Asim<br>
<br>
<div dir="ltr">Sent from my iPhone</div>
<div dir="ltr"><br>
<blockquote type="cite">On Feb 7, 2022, at 8:59 AM, Juyang Weng <juyang.weng@gmail.com> wrote:<br>
<br>
</blockquote>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">Dear Asim,
<div>The biggest trap is to avoid brain problems and only work on so called "an engineering problem" or "a focused problem".<br>
<div>In a cluttered scene, there maybe n>10 objects and m>> 1000 parts. A brain model must explain how the skull-closed brain segments objects and their parts.</div>
<div>The traditional and also your "recognition by parts" approach does not explain
<br>
(1) how different objects are segmented and <br>
(2) how different parts are segmented and group into objects. </div>
<div>Note "skull-closed" condition. No supervision into the brain network is allowed.</div>
<div>My conscious learning model using DN addresses such compounding problems while skull is closed (using unsupervised Hebbian learning) and without a given task.<br>
<span style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Times;font-size:medium">J. Weng, "3D-to-2D-to-3D Conscious Learning", in Proc. IEEE 40th International Conference on Consumer Electronics, pp. 1-6, Las Vegas NV, USA, Jan.7-9, 2022. <br>
</span><a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://www.cse.msu.edu/*weng/research/ConsciousLearning-ICCE-2022-rvsd-cite.pdf__;fg!!IKRxdwAv5BmarQ!PfceeZmIHqdftZkuXidvHEPXGM-Vu7TBVOMVyaSIrX23zTU0bHf0B5e41Qxizo4$">http://www.cse.msu.edu/~weng/research/ConsciousLearning-ICCE-2022-rvsd-cite.pdf</a><br>
</div>
<div>YouTube talk:<br>
<img alt="image.png" width="482" height="16" src="cid:ii_kzcvhbsi1"><br>
</div>
<div>My model must not address the above problems only.</div>
<div>Best regards,</div>
<div>-John</div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Sun, Feb 6, 2022 at 10:43 PM Asim Roy <<a href="mailto:ASIM.ROY@asu.edu">ASIM.ROY@asu.edu</a>> wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
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<div class="gmail-m_-4426405370106660875WordSection1">
<p class="MsoNormal">Dear John,<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">We recognize whole objects, but at the same time we verify its parts.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Best,<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Asim<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<div style="border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-left:none;border-top:1pt solid rgb(225,225,225);padding:3pt 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> Juyang Weng <<a href="mailto:juyang.weng@gmail.com" target="_blank">juyang.weng@gmail.com</a>>
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Sunday, February 6, 2022 8:38 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Asim Roy <<a href="mailto:ASIM.ROY@asu.edu" target="_blank">ASIM.ROY@asu.edu</a>><br>
<b>Cc:</b> Geoffrey Hinton <<a href="mailto:geoffrey.hinton@gmail.com" target="_blank">geoffrey.hinton@gmail.com</a>>; Dietterich, Thomas <<a href="mailto:tgd@oregonstate.edu" target="_blank">tgd@oregonstate.edu</a>>; AIhub <<a href="mailto:aihuborg@gmail.com" target="_blank">aihuborg@gmail.com</a>>;
<a href="mailto:connectionists@mailman.srv.cs.cmu.edu" target="_blank">connectionists@mailman.srv.cs.cmu.edu</a>; Gary Marcus <<a href="mailto:gary.marcus@nyu.edu" target="_blank">gary.marcus@nyu.edu</a>>; Danko Nikolic <<a href="mailto:danko.nikolic@gmail.com" target="_blank">danko.nikolic@gmail.com</a>>;
Stephen José Hanson <<a href="mailto:jose@rubic.rutgers.edu" target="_blank">jose@rubic.rutgers.edu</a>>; Marek Reformat <<a href="mailto:reformat@ualberta.ca" target="_blank">reformat@ualberta.ca</a>>; MARCO GORI <<a href="mailto:marco.gori@unisi.it" target="_blank">marco.gori@unisi.it</a>>;
Alessandro Sperduti <<a href="mailto:alessandro.sperduti@unipd.it" target="_blank">alessandro.sperduti@unipd.it</a>>; Xiaodong Li <<a href="mailto:xiaodong.li@rmit.edu.au" target="_blank">xiaodong.li@rmit.edu.au</a>>; Hava Siegelmann <<a href="mailto:hava.siegelmann@gmail.com" target="_blank">hava.siegelmann@gmail.com</a>>;
Peter Tino <<a href="mailto:P.Tino@cs.bham.ac.uk" target="_blank">P.Tino@cs.bham.ac.uk</a>>; Bing Xue <<a href="mailto:Bing.Xue@ecs.vuw.ac.nz" target="_blank">Bing.Xue@ecs.vuw.ac.nz</a>>; Ali Minai <<a href="mailto:minaiaa@gmail.com" target="_blank">minaiaa@gmail.com</a>>;
Claudius Gros <<a href="mailto:gros@itp.uni-frankfurt.de" target="_blank">gros@itp.uni-frankfurt.de</a>>; Jean-Philippe Thivierge <<a href="mailto:Jean-Philippe.Thivierge@uottawa.ca" target="_blank">Jean-Philippe.Thivierge@uottawa.ca</a>>; Tsvi Achler <<a href="mailto:achler@optimizingmind.com" target="_blank">achler@optimizingmind.com</a>>;
Prof A Hussain <<a href="mailto:hussain.doctor@gmail.com" target="_blank">hussain.doctor@gmail.com</a>><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: Connectionists: Stephen Hanson in conversation with Geoff Hinton<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Dear Asim,<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">The brain does not assume a single object in a cluttered science. Thus, a simple explanation like "recognition by parts" (but without object abstraction) should be invalid. It is like a chicken and egg problem. Both chicken and egg are
absent. We must not assume egg is there or chicken is there. <u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Best regards,<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">-John<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On Sun, Feb 6, 2022 at 2:42 PM Asim Roy <<a href="mailto:ASIM.ROY@asu.edu" target="_blank">ASIM.ROY@asu.edu</a>> wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-left:1pt solid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in">
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Dear John,<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">You are right and I admit I am not solving all of the problems. It’s just in reference to this one problem that Geoffrey Hinton mentions that I think can be resolved:<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><i><span style="color:black;background:yellow">“I agree that it's nice to have a causal explanations. But I am not convinced there
</span><span style="color:black;background:lime">will ever be </span><span style="color:black;background:yellow">a simple causal explanation for how you recognize that a handwritten 2 is a 2. We can introspect on how we do it and this may or may not give some
insight into how we check our answer, but the immediate sense that a handwritten 2 is a 2 is computed by a neural net that is not functionally equivalent to any simple and easily explainable procedure.</span>”</i><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Best,<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Asim<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
<div style="border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-left:none;border-top:1pt solid rgb(225,225,225);padding:3pt 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> Juyang Weng <<a href="mailto:juyang.weng@gmail.com" target="_blank">juyang.weng@gmail.com</a>>
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Sunday, February 6, 2022 10:06 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Asim Roy <<a href="mailto:ASIM.ROY@asu.edu" target="_blank">ASIM.ROY@asu.edu</a>><br>
<b>Cc:</b> Geoffrey Hinton <<a href="mailto:geoffrey.hinton@gmail.com" target="_blank">geoffrey.hinton@gmail.com</a>>; Dietterich, Thomas <<a href="mailto:tgd@oregonstate.edu" target="_blank">tgd@oregonstate.edu</a>>; AIhub <<a href="mailto:aihuborg@gmail.com" target="_blank">aihuborg@gmail.com</a>>;
<a href="mailto:connectionists@mailman.srv.cs.cmu.edu" target="_blank">connectionists@mailman.srv.cs.cmu.edu</a>; Gary Marcus <<a href="mailto:gary.marcus@nyu.edu" target="_blank">gary.marcus@nyu.edu</a>>; Danko Nikolic <<a href="mailto:danko.nikolic@gmail.com" target="_blank">danko.nikolic@gmail.com</a>>;
Stephen José Hanson <<a href="mailto:jose@rubic.rutgers.edu" target="_blank">jose@rubic.rutgers.edu</a>>; Marek Reformat <<a href="mailto:reformat@ualberta.ca" target="_blank">reformat@ualberta.ca</a>>; MARCO GORI <<a href="mailto:marco.gori@unisi.it" target="_blank">marco.gori@unisi.it</a>>;
Alessandro Sperduti <<a href="mailto:alessandro.sperduti@unipd.it" target="_blank">alessandro.sperduti@unipd.it</a>>; Xiaodong Li <<a href="mailto:xiaodong.li@rmit.edu.au" target="_blank">xiaodong.li@rmit.edu.au</a>>; Hava Siegelmann <<a href="mailto:hava.siegelmann@gmail.com" target="_blank">hava.siegelmann@gmail.com</a>>;
Peter Tino <<a href="mailto:P.Tino@cs.bham.ac.uk" target="_blank">P.Tino@cs.bham.ac.uk</a>>; Bing Xue <<a href="mailto:Bing.Xue@ecs.vuw.ac.nz" target="_blank">Bing.Xue@ecs.vuw.ac.nz</a>>; Ali Minai <<a href="mailto:minaiaa@gmail.com" target="_blank">minaiaa@gmail.com</a>>;
Claudius Gros <<a href="mailto:gros@itp.uni-frankfurt.de" target="_blank">gros@itp.uni-frankfurt.de</a>>; Jean-Philippe Thivierge <<a href="mailto:Jean-Philippe.Thivierge@uottawa.ca" target="_blank">Jean-Philippe.Thivierge@uottawa.ca</a>>; Tsvi Achler <<a href="mailto:achler@optimizingmind.com" target="_blank">achler@optimizingmind.com</a>>;
Prof A Hussain <<a href="mailto:hussain.doctor@gmail.com" target="_blank">hussain.doctor@gmail.com</a>><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: Connectionists: Stephen Hanson in conversation with Geoff Hinton<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Dear Asim,<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">I try to be brief so that I can explain why many of us have missed, and will continue to miss, the boat.
<br>
In some of my talks, I have a ppt slide "The brain is like blindmen and an elephant". <u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Unfortunately, your "identify objects based on its parts" is a good traditional idea from pattern recognition that is still a blindman. <u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Your idea does not explain many other problems without which we will never understand a biological brain. <u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">For example, your idea does not explain how the brain learns planning and discovery in a cluttered world.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">We must solve many million-dollar problems holistically. Please watch my YouTube video:<br>
Title: An Algorithmic Theory for Conscious Learning: 10 Million-Dollar Problems Solved<br>
<a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/youtu.be/Dgx1dLCdSKY__;!!IKRxdwAv5BmarQ!OP6-Fyzh3m5ferZx_elpYJiqeo3i85ovlEK0APZojXANvt2iBuZabwPRZiZTieE$" target="_blank">https://youtu.be/Dgx1dLCdSKY</a><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Best regards,<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">-John<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On Sat, Feb 5, 2022 at 12:01 AM Asim Roy <<a href="mailto:ASIM.ROY@asu.edu" target="_blank">ASIM.ROY@asu.edu</a>> wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-left:1pt solid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt">
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">I am responding to this part of Geoffrey Hinton’s note:<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><i><span style="color:black;background:yellow">“I agree that it's nice to have a causal explanations. But I am not convinced there
</span><span style="color:black;background:lime">will ever be </span><span style="color:black;background:yellow">a simple causal explanation for how you recognize that a handwritten 2 is a 2. We can introspect on how we do it and this may or may not give some
insight into how we check our answer, but the immediate sense that a handwritten 2 is a 2 is computed by a neural net that is not functionally equivalent to any simple and easily explainable procedure.</span>”</i><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">The causal explanation is actually done quite simply, and we are doing it currently. I can talk about this now because Arizona State University (ASU) has filed a provisional patent application on the technology. The basic idea was laid
out by DARPA in their Explainable AI (XAI) program (<a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/www.darpa.mil/program/explainable-artificial-intelligence__;!!IKRxdwAv5BmarQ!OP6-Fyzh3m5ferZx_elpYJiqeo3i85ovlEK0APZojXANvt2iBuZabwPRCmCN9NE$" target="_blank">Explainable
Artificial Intelligence (darpa.mil)</a>) and illustrated in the figure below. The idea is to identify objects based on its parts. So, the figure below says that it’s a cat because it has fur, whiskers, and claws plus an unlabeled visual feature. I am not sure
if DARPA got anything close to this from its funding of various entities. What this means is that you need a parts model. And we do that. In the case of MNIST handwritten digits that Geoff mentions, we “teach” this parts model what the top part of a digit
“3” looks like, what the bottom part looks like and so on. And we also teach connectivity between parts and the composition of objects from parts. And we do that for all digits. And we get a symbolic model sitting on top of a CNN model that provides the explanation
that Geoff is referring to as the causal explanation. This “teaching” is similar to the way you would teach a kid to recognize different digits.
<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">An advantage of this parts model, in addition to being in an explainable symbolic form, is robustness to adversarial attack. We recently tested on the MNIST data. Where a regular CNN model’s accuracy was reduced by a fast gradient method
to 27%, our XAI model maintained an accuracy of 90%, probably higher. In general, it would be hard to make a school bus look like an ostrich, with a few pixel changes, if you can identify the parts of a school bus and an ostrich.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">A parts model that DARPA wanted provides both a symbolic explanation and adversarial protection. The problem that Geoffrey is referring to is solved.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">I am doing a tutorial on this at IEEE World Congress on Computational Intelligence in Padua, Italy, July 2022 (<a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/wcci2022.org/__;!!IKRxdwAv5BmarQ!OP6-Fyzh3m5ferZx_elpYJiqeo3i85ovlEK0APZojXANvt2iBuZabwPRuzPz3S4$" target="_blank">WCCI2022
– WCCI2022 Padua, Italy 18-23 July</a>). I am copying the organizers and want to thank them for accepting the tutorial proposal. The only other presentation I have done on this is at a Military Operations Research Society (MORS) meeting last December.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">So, back to the future. Hybrid models might indeed save deep learning models and let us deploy these models without concern. We might not even need adversarial training of any kind.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Asim Roy<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Professor, Information Systems<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Arizona State University<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.com*2Fv3*2F__https*3A*2Fnam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com*2F*3Furl*3Dhttps*3A*2F*2Furldefense.com*2Fv3*2F__https*3A*2Fnam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com*2F*3Furl*3Dhttps*3A*2F*2Furldefense.proofpoint.com*2Fv2*2Furl*3Fu*3Dhttps-3A__lifeboat.com_ex_bios.asim.roy*26d*3DDwMFaQ*26c*3DslrrB7dE8n7gBJbeO0g-IQ*26r*3DwQR1NePCSj6dOGDD0r6B5Kn1fcNaTMg7tARe7TdEDqQ*26m*3DwaSKY67JF57IZXg30ysFB_R7OG9zoQwFwxyps6FbTa1Zh5mttxRot_t4N7mn68Pj*26s*3DoDRJmXX22O8NcfqyLjyu4Ajmt8pcHWquTxYjeWahfuw*26e*3D*26data*3D04*7C01*7Cnathaniel.bastian*40westpoint.edu*7C2174db997d41416570df08d9e7977df4*7C99ff8811351740a9bf1045ea0a321f0b*7C0*7C1*7C637795460131639617*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C2000*26sdata*3DQ2onlybx5B4kjGT7utxrdgtNYcAF9Xdo*2FPKbLmc054w*3D*26reserved*3D0__*3BJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUl!!IKRxdwAv5BmarQ!JbWNkdLmRRWC-fJ56HQ2rP8WJjq2HHjkPvblQHY33hbprAWylUhDSJy9dOjXJJc*24*26data*3D04*7C01*7Cnathaniel.bastian*40westpoint.edu*7C089bbef47dda414f4b1308d9e81186cb*7C99ff8811351740a9bf1045ea0a321f0b*7C0*7C1*7C637795984264413927*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C2000*26sdata*3DupBnYQI8bCc*2By2PTAWajTl*2FN5lfR2KIMuDKP23FdyHs*3D*26reserved*3D0__*3BJSUlJSUlJSUlJSoqKioqKioqKioqKioqKioqKiolJSoqKioqKioqKioqKiUlKiolJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUl!!IKRxdwAv5BmarQ!PE_a193Wp530h-nER7kk18HR4eB_1q0kEbJMDDBWj1sZLsYflejZY_BM7KWIWRM*24&data=04*7C01*7Cnathaniel.bastian*40westpoint.edu*7Cdc262a74048a4989fd8e08d9e81236ab*7C99ff8811351740a9bf1045ea0a321f0b*7C0*7C1*7C637795987200498624*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C3000&sdata=5qyi2UXXrDV1SB53alp3QlOUxDgUfv01HfvbcG2gGEM*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSoqKioqKioqKioqKioqKioqKioqKioqKioqKioqKioqKioqKioqKioqKioqKioqKioqKiUlKioqKioqKioqKioqJSUqKiolJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJQ!!IKRxdwAv5BmarQ!LkQuyj42ldEMFEwGffdQMsrhfMh1Z_t8yiF60b9pImqpgUXQNNwNbXzwB9oxZTQ$" target="_blank">Lifeboat
Foundation Bios: Professor Asim Roy</a><u></u><u></u></p>
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Roy | iSearch (asu.edu)</a><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.com*2Fv3*2F__https*3A*2Fnam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com*2F*3Furl*3Dhttps*3A*2F*2Furldefense.com*2Fv3*2F__https*3A*2Fnam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com*2F*3Furl*3Dhttp*3A*2F*2Fwww.teuvonet.com*2F*26data*3D04*7C01*7Cnathaniel.bastian*40westpoint.edu*7C2174db997d41416570df08d9e7977df4*7C99ff8811351740a9bf1045ea0a321f0b*7C0*7C1*7C637795460131639617*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C2000*26sdata*3DWJ7*2FN8Y0*2BOkdBZpEh6ts2ApoRBcFzBML*2FVoiB9h*2BBz0*3D*26reserved*3D0__*3BJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUl!!IKRxdwAv5BmarQ!JbWNkdLmRRWC-fJ56HQ2rP8WJjq2HHjkPvblQHY33hbprAWylUhDSJy9Zxkcv7w*24*26data*3D04*7C01*7Cnathaniel.bastian*40westpoint.edu*7C089bbef47dda414f4b1308d9e81186cb*7C99ff8811351740a9bf1045ea0a321f0b*7C0*7C1*7C637795984264413927*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C2000*26sdata*3DqeXjvz5Y3AhVYcGw8*2BRqyh1YpjxL*2BRIseU5u5yVzqBw*3D*26reserved*3D0__*3BJSUlJSUlJSUlJSoqKiolJSoqKioqKioqKioqKiUlKioqKiolJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUl!!IKRxdwAv5BmarQ!PE_a193Wp530h-nER7kk18HR4eB_1q0kEbJMDDBWj1sZLsYflejZY_BMpJCsBgw*24&data=04*7C01*7Cnathaniel.bastian*40westpoint.edu*7Cdc262a74048a4989fd8e08d9e81236ab*7C99ff8811351740a9bf1045ea0a321f0b*7C0*7C1*7C637795987200498624*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C3000&sdata=u5BFd9WTCBdNKgPGhIu6L3vb6fDtp*2Bodb3Jo9h3Llcg*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSoqKioqKioqKioqKioqKioqKioqKioqKioqKioqKioqKioqKioqKiUlKioqKioqKioqKioqJSUqKiolJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSU!!IKRxdwAv5BmarQ!LkQuyj42ldEMFEwGffdQMsrhfMh1Z_t8yiF60b9pImqpgUXQNNwNbXzw3GwLgxw$" target="_blank">www.teuvonet.com</a>
<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><img border="0" width="813" height="485" style="width: 8.4687in; height: 5.052in;" id="gmail-m_-4426405370106660875gmail-m_-3515592991430247808gmail-m_7498498591353817340Picture_x0020_4" alt="Timeline
Description automatically generated" src="cid:17ed4dace8e4cff311"><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
<div style="border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-left:none;border-top:1pt solid rgb(225,225,225);padding:3pt 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> Connectionists <<a href="mailto:connectionists-bounces@mailman.srv.cs.cmu.edu" target="_blank">connectionists-bounces@mailman.srv.cs.cmu.edu</a>>
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Geoffrey Hinton<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, February 4, 2022 1:24 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Dietterich, Thomas <<a href="mailto:tgd@oregonstate.edu" target="_blank">tgd@oregonstate.edu</a>><br>
<b>Cc:</b> AIhub <<a href="mailto:aihuborg@gmail.com" target="_blank">aihuborg@gmail.com</a>>;
<a href="mailto:connectionists@mailman.srv.cs.cmu.edu" target="_blank">connectionists@mailman.srv.cs.cmu.edu</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: Connectionists: Stephen Hanson in conversation with Geoff Hinton<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">I agree that it's nice to have a causal explanations. But I am not convinced there will ever be a simple causal explanation for how you recognize that a handwritten 2 is a 2. We can introspect on how we do it and this may or may not give
some insight into how we check our answer, but the immediate sense that a handwritten 2 is a 2 is computed by a neural net that is not functionally equivalent to any simple and easily explainable procedure.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">This does not mean that we should give up on trying to make artificial neural nets work more like real ones. People can see a tilted square as either an upright diamond or a tilted square and, so far as I know, a convnet does not exhibit
this type of alternate percept. People seem to impose hierarchical structural descriptions on images and sound waves and they clearly impose intrinsic coordinate frames on wholes and parts. If this is what Gary means by symbolic then I don’t disagree that
neural nets should do symbol processing. However, there is a very different meaning of "symbolic". A pure atomic symbol has no internal structure. The form of the symbol itself tells you nothing about what it denotes. The only relevant properties it has are
that it's identical to other instances of the same symbol and different from all other symbols. That's totally different from a neural net that uses embedding vectors. Embedding vectors have a rich internal structure that dictates how they interact with
other embedding vectors. What I really object to is the following approach: Start with pure symbols and rules for how to manipulate structures made out of pure symbols. These structures themselves can be denoted by symbols that correspond to memory addresses
where the bits in the address tell you nothing about the content of the structure at that address. Then when the rule-based approach doesn't work for dealing with the real world (e.g. machine translation) try to use neural nets to convert the real world into
pure symbols and then carry on with the rule-based approach. That is like using an electric motor to inject the gasoline into the same old gasoline engine instead of just replacing the gasoline engine with an electric motor.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">On Fri, Feb 4, 2022 at 2:32 AM Dietterich, Thomas <<a href="mailto:tgd@oregonstate.edu" target="_blank">tgd@oregonstate.edu</a>> wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-left:1pt solid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt">
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">“Understanding” is not a Boolean. It is a theorem that no system can enumerate all of the consequences of a state of affairs in the world.
<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">For low-stakes application work, we can be satisfied by a system that “does the right thing”. If the system draws a good picture, that’s sufficient. It “understood” the request.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">But for higher-stakes applications---and for advancing the science---we seek a causal account of how the components of a system cause it to do the right thing. We are hoping that a small set of mechanisms can produce broad coverage of intelligent
behavior. This gives us confidence that the system will respond correctly outside of the narrow tasks on which we have tested it.
<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">--Tom <u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Courier New";color:rgb(31,73,125)">Thomas G. Dietterich, Distinguished Professor Emeritus</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Courier New";color:rgb(31,73,125)">School of Electrical Engineering and Computer Science
</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Courier New";color:rgb(31,73,125)">US Mail: 1148 Kelley Engineering Center
</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Courier New";color:rgb(31,73,125)"> </span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Courier New";color:rgb(31,73,125)">Office: 2067 Kelley Engineering Center
</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Courier New";color:rgb(31,73,125)">Oregon State Univ., Corvallis, OR 97331-5501</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Courier New";color:rgb(31,73,125)">Voice: 541-737-5559; FAX: 541-737-1300</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Courier New";color:rgb(31,73,125)">URL:
<a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__http:/web.engr.oregonstate.edu/*tgd/__;fg!!IKRxdwAv5BmarQ!IcLaVAupTYedSuWIPJGuIdRdOzEq4sib8fyufCCcC5bvaoUXwfrn-27dCL3hm84$" target="_blank">
http://web.engr.oregonstate.edu/~tgd/</a></span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<div style="border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-left:none;border-top:1pt solid rgb(225,225,225);padding:3pt 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> Connectionists <<a href="mailto:connectionists-bounces@mailman.srv.cs.cmu.edu" target="_blank">connectionists-bounces@mailman.srv.cs.cmu.edu</a>>
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Gary Marcus<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, February 3, 2022 8:26 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Danko Nikolic <<a href="mailto:danko.nikolic@gmail.com" target="_blank">danko.nikolic@gmail.com</a>><br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a href="mailto:connectionists@mailman.srv.cs.cmu.edu" target="_blank">
connectionists@mailman.srv.cs.cmu.edu</a>; AIhub <<a href="mailto:aihuborg@gmail.com" target="_blank">aihuborg@gmail.com</a>><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: Connectionists: Stephen Hanson in conversation with Geoff Hinton<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
<p><span style="color:rgb(215,63,9)">[This email originated from outside of OSU. Use caution with links and attachments.]</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
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<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Dear Danko, <u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Well said. I had a somewhat similar response to Jeff Dean’s 2021 TED talk, in which he said (paraphrasing from memory, because I don’t remember the precise words) that the famous 200 Quoc Le unsupervised model [<a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Fstatic.googleusercontent.com*2Fmedia*2Fresearch.google.com*2Fen*2F*2Farchive*2Funsupervised_icml2012.pdf&data=04*7C01*7Ctgd*40oregonstate.edu*7C3db6ca275cc748415eaa08d9e732a318*7Cce6d05e13c5e4d6287a84c4a2713c113*7C0*7C0*7C637795026944990348*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C3000&sdata=l1WwVtsu*2BBMn0UfnWdN7tHCdsWTdIi9P*2Ffd50ThMgEs*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUl!!IKRxdwAv5BmarQ!IcLaVAupTYedSuWIPJGuIdRdOzEq4sib8fyufCCcC5bvaoUXwfrn-27dfwthUg4$" target="_blank">https://static.googleusercontent.com/media/research.google.com/en//archive/unsupervised_icml2012.pdf</a>]
had learned the concept of a ca. In reality the model had clustered together some catlike images based on the image statistics that it had extracted, but it was a long way from a full, counterfactual-supporting concept of a cat, much as you describe below. <u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">I fully agree with you that the reason for even having a semantics is as you put it, "to 1) learn with a few examples and 2) apply the knowledge to a broad set of situations.” GPT-3 sometimes gives the appearance of having done so, but
it falls apart under close inspection, so the problem remains unsolved.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Gary<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt"> <u></u><u></u></p>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5pt;margin-bottom:5pt">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On Feb 3, 2022, at 3:19 AM, Danko Nikolic <<a href="mailto:danko.nikolic@gmail.com" target="_blank">danko.nikolic@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">G. Hinton wrote: "I believe that any reasonable person would admit that if you ask a neural net to draw a picture of a hamster wearing a red hat and it draws such a picture, it understood the request."
<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">I would like to suggest why drawing a hamster with a red hat does not necessarily imply understanding of the statement "hamster wearing a red hat".<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">To understand that "hamster wearing a red hat" would mean inferring, in newly emerging situations of this hamster, all the real-life implications that the red hat brings to the little animal.<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">What would happen to the hat if the hamster rolls on its back? (Would the hat fall off?)<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">What would happen to the red hat when the hamster enters its lair? (Would the hat fall off?)<u></u><u></u></p>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">What would happen to that hamster when it goes foraging? (Would the red hat have an influence on finding food?)<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">What would happen in a situation of being chased by a predator? (Would it be easier for predators to spot the hamster?)<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">...and so on.<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Countless many questions can be asked. One has understood "hamster wearing a red hat" only if one can answer reasonably well many of such real-life relevant questions. Similarly, a student has understood materias in a class only if they
can apply the materials in real-life situations (e.g., applying Pythagora's theorem). If a student gives a correct answer to a multiple choice question, we don't know whether the student understood the material or whether this was just rote learning (often,
it is rote learning). <u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">I also suggest that understanding also comes together with effective learning: We store new information in such a way that we can recall it later and use it effectively i.e., make good inferences in newly emerging situations based on this
knowledge.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">In short: Understanding makes us humans able to 1) learn with a few examples and 2) apply the knowledge to a broad set of situations. <u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">No neural network today has such capabilities and we don't know how to give them such capabilities. Neural networks need large amounts of training examples that cover a large variety of situations and then the networks can only deal with
what the training examples have already covered. Neural networks cannot extrapolate in that 'understanding' sense.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">I suggest that understanding truly extrapolates from a piece of knowledge. It is not about satisfying a task such as translation between languages or drawing hamsters with hats. It is how you got the capability to complete the task: Did
you only have a few examples that covered something different but related and then you extrapolated from that knowledge? If yes, this is going in the direction of understanding. Have you seen countless examples and then interpolated among them? Then perhaps
it is not understanding.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">So, for the case of drawing a hamster wearing a red hat, understanding perhaps would have taken place if the following happened before that:<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">1) first, the network learned about hamsters (not many examples)<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">2) after that the network learned about red hats (outside the context of hamsters and without many examples) <u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">3) finally the network learned about drawing (outside of the context of hats and hamsters, not many examples)<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">After that, the network is asked to draw a hamster with a red hat. If it does it successfully, maybe we have started cracking the problem of understanding.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Note also that this requires the network to learn sequentially without exhibiting catastrophic forgetting of the previous knowledge, which is possibly also a consequence of human learning by understanding.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Danko<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Dr. Danko Nikolić<br>
<a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.proofpoint.com*2Fv2*2Furl*3Fu*3Dhttp-3A__www.danko-2Dnikolic.com*26d*3DDwMFaQ*26c*3DslrrB7dE8n7gBJbeO0g-IQ*26r*3DwQR1NePCSj6dOGDD0r6B5Kn1fcNaTMg7tARe7TdEDqQ*26m*3DwaSKY67JF57IZXg30ysFB_R7OG9zoQwFwxyps6FbTa1Zh5mttxRot_t4N7mn68Pj*26s*3DHwOLDw6UCRzU5-FPSceKjtpNm7C6sZQU5kuGAMVbPaI*26e*3D&data=04*7C01*7Ctgd*40oregonstate.edu*7C3db6ca275cc748415eaa08d9e732a318*7Cce6d05e13c5e4d6287a84c4a2713c113*7C0*7C0*7C637795026944990348*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C3000&sdata=4tckqFTDoD5PoPbncU5nuSw1jRQ5yHbl1rEZExji4iQ*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSU!!IKRxdwAv5BmarQ!IcLaVAupTYedSuWIPJGuIdRdOzEq4sib8fyufCCcC5bvaoUXwfrn-27dySwMZ7s$" target="_blank">www.danko-nikolic.com</a><br>
<a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.proofpoint.com*2Fv2*2Furl*3Fu*3Dhttps-3A__www.linkedin.com_in_danko-2Dnikolic_*26d*3DDwMFaQ*26c*3DslrrB7dE8n7gBJbeO0g-IQ*26r*3DwQR1NePCSj6dOGDD0r6B5Kn1fcNaTMg7tARe7TdEDqQ*26m*3DwaSKY67JF57IZXg30ysFB_R7OG9zoQwFwxyps6FbTa1Zh5mttxRot_t4N7mn68Pj*26s*3Db70c8lokmxM3Kz66OfMIM4pROgAhTJOAlp205vOmCQ8*26e*3D&data=04*7C01*7Ctgd*40oregonstate.edu*7C3db6ca275cc748415eaa08d9e732a318*7Cce6d05e13c5e4d6287a84c4a2713c113*7C0*7C0*7C637795026944990348*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C3000&sdata=NJoyEx8ZVu82e0Tw5u*2BNCEQtcJ8tW*2BnOpgD*2FwkVTZ*2FM*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUl!!IKRxdwAv5BmarQ!IcLaVAupTYedSuWIPJGuIdRdOzEq4sib8fyufCCcC5bvaoUXwfrn-27dnZcQQxs$" target="_blank">https://www.linkedin.com/in/danko-nikolic/</a>
<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">--- A progress usually starts with an insight ---<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<div id="gmail-m_-4426405370106660875gmail-m_-3515592991430247808gmail-m_7498498591353817340gmail-m_2483059400425082914m_-2728982899665715520DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2">
<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.proofpoint.com*2Fv2*2Furl*3Fu*3Dhttps-3A__www.avast.com_sig-2Demail-3Futm-5Fmedium-3Demail-26utm-5Fsource-3Dlink-26utm-5Fcampaign-3Dsig-2Demail-26utm-5Fcontent-3Dwebmail*26d*3DDwMFaQ*26c*3DslrrB7dE8n7gBJbeO0g-IQ*26r*3DwQR1NePCSj6dOGDD0r6B5Kn1fcNaTMg7tARe7TdEDqQ*26m*3DwaSKY67JF57IZXg30ysFB_R7OG9zoQwFwxyps6FbTa1Zh5mttxRot_t4N7mn68Pj*26s*3DAo9QQWtO62go0hx1tb3NU6xw2FNBadjj8q64-hl5Sx4*26e*3D&data=04*7C01*7Ctgd*40oregonstate.edu*7C3db6ca275cc748415eaa08d9e732a318*7Cce6d05e13c5e4d6287a84c4a2713c113*7C0*7C0*7C637795026944990348*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C3000&sdata=gRfN5WuMr4*2BLwZMRqPOPaTJ97VoUB*2FVRMELwu5lQeiU*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJQ!!IKRxdwAv5BmarQ!IcLaVAupTYedSuWIPJGuIdRdOzEq4sib8fyufCCcC5bvaoUXwfrn-27dvH_NVZ8$" target="_blank"><span style="color:windowtext;text-decoration:none"> </span></a><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.proofpoint.com*2Fv2*2Furl*3Fu*3Dhttps-3A__www.avast.com_sig-2Demail-3Futm-5Fmedium-3Demail-26utm-5Fsource-3Dlink-26utm-5Fcampaign-3Dsig-2Demail-26utm-5Fcontent-3Dwebmail*26d*3DDwMFaQ*26c*3DslrrB7dE8n7gBJbeO0g-IQ*26r*3DwQR1NePCSj6dOGDD0r6B5Kn1fcNaTMg7tARe7TdEDqQ*26m*3DwaSKY67JF57IZXg30ysFB_R7OG9zoQwFwxyps6FbTa1Zh5mttxRot_t4N7mn68Pj*26s*3DAo9QQWtO62go0hx1tb3NU6xw2FNBadjj8q64-hl5Sx4*26e*3D&data=04*7C01*7Ctgd*40oregonstate.edu*7C3db6ca275cc748415eaa08d9e732a318*7Cce6d05e13c5e4d6287a84c4a2713c113*7C0*7C0*7C637795026944990348*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C3000&sdata=gRfN5WuMr4*2BLwZMRqPOPaTJ97VoUB*2FVRMELwu5lQeiU*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJQ!!IKRxdwAv5BmarQ!IcLaVAupTYedSuWIPJGuIdRdOzEq4sib8fyufCCcC5bvaoUXwfrn-27dvH_NVZ8$" target="_blank"><span style="color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">On
Thu, Feb 3, 2022 at 9:55 AM Asim Roy <</span>ASIM.ROY@asu.edu<span style="color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">> wrote:</span></a><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-left:1pt solid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt">
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.proofpoint.com*2Fv2*2Furl*3Fu*3Dhttps-3A__www.avast.com_sig-2Demail-3Futm-5Fmedium-3Demail-26utm-5Fsource-3Dlink-26utm-5Fcampaign-3Dsig-2Demail-26utm-5Fcontent-3Dwebmail*26d*3DDwMFaQ*26c*3DslrrB7dE8n7gBJbeO0g-IQ*26r*3DwQR1NePCSj6dOGDD0r6B5Kn1fcNaTMg7tARe7TdEDqQ*26m*3DwaSKY67JF57IZXg30ysFB_R7OG9zoQwFwxyps6FbTa1Zh5mttxRot_t4N7mn68Pj*26s*3DAo9QQWtO62go0hx1tb3NU6xw2FNBadjj8q64-hl5Sx4*26e*3D&data=04*7C01*7Ctgd*40oregonstate.edu*7C3db6ca275cc748415eaa08d9e732a318*7Cce6d05e13c5e4d6287a84c4a2713c113*7C0*7C0*7C637795026944990348*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C3000&sdata=gRfN5WuMr4*2BLwZMRqPOPaTJ97VoUB*2FVRMELwu5lQeiU*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJQ!!IKRxdwAv5BmarQ!IcLaVAupTYedSuWIPJGuIdRdOzEq4sib8fyufCCcC5bvaoUXwfrn-27dvH_NVZ8$" target="_blank"><span style="color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">Without
getting into the specific dispute between Gary and Geoff, I think with approaches similar to GLOM, we are finally headed in the right direction. There’s plenty of neurophysiological evidence for single-cell abstractions and multisensory neurons in the brain,
which one might claim correspond to symbols. And I think we can finally reconcile the decades old dispute between Symbolic AI and Connectionism.</span></a><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.proofpoint.com*2Fv2*2Furl*3Fu*3Dhttps-3A__www.avast.com_sig-2Demail-3Futm-5Fmedium-3Demail-26utm-5Fsource-3Dlink-26utm-5Fcampaign-3Dsig-2Demail-26utm-5Fcontent-3Dwebmail*26d*3DDwMFaQ*26c*3DslrrB7dE8n7gBJbeO0g-IQ*26r*3DwQR1NePCSj6dOGDD0r6B5Kn1fcNaTMg7tARe7TdEDqQ*26m*3DwaSKY67JF57IZXg30ysFB_R7OG9zoQwFwxyps6FbTa1Zh5mttxRot_t4N7mn68Pj*26s*3DAo9QQWtO62go0hx1tb3NU6xw2FNBadjj8q64-hl5Sx4*26e*3D&data=04*7C01*7Ctgd*40oregonstate.edu*7C3db6ca275cc748415eaa08d9e732a318*7Cce6d05e13c5e4d6287a84c4a2713c113*7C0*7C0*7C637795026944990348*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C3000&sdata=gRfN5WuMr4*2BLwZMRqPOPaTJ97VoUB*2FVRMELwu5lQeiU*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJQ!!IKRxdwAv5BmarQ!IcLaVAupTYedSuWIPJGuIdRdOzEq4sib8fyufCCcC5bvaoUXwfrn-27dvH_NVZ8$" target="_blank"><span style="color:windowtext;text-decoration:none"> </span></a><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black;background:yellow"><a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.proofpoint.com*2Fv2*2Furl*3Fu*3Dhttps-3A__www.avast.com_sig-2Demail-3Futm-5Fmedium-3Demail-26utm-5Fsource-3Dlink-26utm-5Fcampaign-3Dsig-2Demail-26utm-5Fcontent-3Dwebmail*26d*3DDwMFaQ*26c*3DslrrB7dE8n7gBJbeO0g-IQ*26r*3DwQR1NePCSj6dOGDD0r6B5Kn1fcNaTMg7tARe7TdEDqQ*26m*3DwaSKY67JF57IZXg30ysFB_R7OG9zoQwFwxyps6FbTa1Zh5mttxRot_t4N7mn68Pj*26s*3DAo9QQWtO62go0hx1tb3NU6xw2FNBadjj8q64-hl5Sx4*26e*3D&data=04*7C01*7Ctgd*40oregonstate.edu*7C3db6ca275cc748415eaa08d9e732a318*7Cce6d05e13c5e4d6287a84c4a2713c113*7C0*7C0*7C637795026944990348*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C3000&sdata=gRfN5WuMr4*2BLwZMRqPOPaTJ97VoUB*2FVRMELwu5lQeiU*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJQ!!IKRxdwAv5BmarQ!IcLaVAupTYedSuWIPJGuIdRdOzEq4sib8fyufCCcC5bvaoUXwfrn-27dvH_NVZ8$" target="_blank"><span style="color:black;text-decoration:none">GARY:
(Your GLOM, which as you know I praised publicly, is in many ways an effort to wind up with encodings that effectively serve as symbols in exactly that way, guaranteed to serve as consistent representations of specific concepts.)</span></a></span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black;background:yellow"><a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.proofpoint.com*2Fv2*2Furl*3Fu*3Dhttps-3A__www.avast.com_sig-2Demail-3Futm-5Fmedium-3Demail-26utm-5Fsource-3Dlink-26utm-5Fcampaign-3Dsig-2Demail-26utm-5Fcontent-3Dwebmail*26d*3DDwMFaQ*26c*3DslrrB7dE8n7gBJbeO0g-IQ*26r*3DwQR1NePCSj6dOGDD0r6B5Kn1fcNaTMg7tARe7TdEDqQ*26m*3DwaSKY67JF57IZXg30ysFB_R7OG9zoQwFwxyps6FbTa1Zh5mttxRot_t4N7mn68Pj*26s*3DAo9QQWtO62go0hx1tb3NU6xw2FNBadjj8q64-hl5Sx4*26e*3D&data=04*7C01*7Ctgd*40oregonstate.edu*7C3db6ca275cc748415eaa08d9e732a318*7Cce6d05e13c5e4d6287a84c4a2713c113*7C0*7C0*7C637795026944990348*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C3000&sdata=gRfN5WuMr4*2BLwZMRqPOPaTJ97VoUB*2FVRMELwu5lQeiU*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJQ!!IKRxdwAv5BmarQ!IcLaVAupTYedSuWIPJGuIdRdOzEq4sib8fyufCCcC5bvaoUXwfrn-27dvH_NVZ8$" target="_blank"><span style="color:black;text-decoration:none">GARY:
I have <i>never</i> called for dismissal of neural networks, but rather for some hybrid between the two (as you yourself contemplated in 1991); the point of the 2001 book was to characterize exactly where multilayer perceptrons succeeded and broke down, and
where symbols could complement them.</span></a></span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.proofpoint.com*2Fv2*2Furl*3Fu*3Dhttps-3A__www.avast.com_sig-2Demail-3Futm-5Fmedium-3Demail-26utm-5Fsource-3Dlink-26utm-5Fcampaign-3Dsig-2Demail-26utm-5Fcontent-3Dwebmail*26d*3DDwMFaQ*26c*3DslrrB7dE8n7gBJbeO0g-IQ*26r*3DwQR1NePCSj6dOGDD0r6B5Kn1fcNaTMg7tARe7TdEDqQ*26m*3DwaSKY67JF57IZXg30ysFB_R7OG9zoQwFwxyps6FbTa1Zh5mttxRot_t4N7mn68Pj*26s*3DAo9QQWtO62go0hx1tb3NU6xw2FNBadjj8q64-hl5Sx4*26e*3D&data=04*7C01*7Ctgd*40oregonstate.edu*7C3db6ca275cc748415eaa08d9e732a318*7Cce6d05e13c5e4d6287a84c4a2713c113*7C0*7C0*7C637795026944990348*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C3000&sdata=gRfN5WuMr4*2BLwZMRqPOPaTJ97VoUB*2FVRMELwu5lQeiU*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJQ!!IKRxdwAv5BmarQ!IcLaVAupTYedSuWIPJGuIdRdOzEq4sib8fyufCCcC5bvaoUXwfrn-27dvH_NVZ8$" target="_blank"><span style="color:windowtext;text-decoration:none"> </span></a><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.proofpoint.com*2Fv2*2Furl*3Fu*3Dhttps-3A__www.avast.com_sig-2Demail-3Futm-5Fmedium-3Demail-26utm-5Fsource-3Dlink-26utm-5Fcampaign-3Dsig-2Demail-26utm-5Fcontent-3Dwebmail*26d*3DDwMFaQ*26c*3DslrrB7dE8n7gBJbeO0g-IQ*26r*3DwQR1NePCSj6dOGDD0r6B5Kn1fcNaTMg7tARe7TdEDqQ*26m*3DwaSKY67JF57IZXg30ysFB_R7OG9zoQwFwxyps6FbTa1Zh5mttxRot_t4N7mn68Pj*26s*3DAo9QQWtO62go0hx1tb3NU6xw2FNBadjj8q64-hl5Sx4*26e*3D&data=04*7C01*7Ctgd*40oregonstate.edu*7C3db6ca275cc748415eaa08d9e732a318*7Cce6d05e13c5e4d6287a84c4a2713c113*7C0*7C0*7C637795026944990348*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C3000&sdata=gRfN5WuMr4*2BLwZMRqPOPaTJ97VoUB*2FVRMELwu5lQeiU*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJQ!!IKRxdwAv5BmarQ!IcLaVAupTYedSuWIPJGuIdRdOzEq4sib8fyufCCcC5bvaoUXwfrn-27dvH_NVZ8$" target="_blank"><span style="color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">Asim
Roy</span></a><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.proofpoint.com*2Fv2*2Furl*3Fu*3Dhttps-3A__www.avast.com_sig-2Demail-3Futm-5Fmedium-3Demail-26utm-5Fsource-3Dlink-26utm-5Fcampaign-3Dsig-2Demail-26utm-5Fcontent-3Dwebmail*26d*3DDwMFaQ*26c*3DslrrB7dE8n7gBJbeO0g-IQ*26r*3DwQR1NePCSj6dOGDD0r6B5Kn1fcNaTMg7tARe7TdEDqQ*26m*3DwaSKY67JF57IZXg30ysFB_R7OG9zoQwFwxyps6FbTa1Zh5mttxRot_t4N7mn68Pj*26s*3DAo9QQWtO62go0hx1tb3NU6xw2FNBadjj8q64-hl5Sx4*26e*3D&data=04*7C01*7Ctgd*40oregonstate.edu*7C3db6ca275cc748415eaa08d9e732a318*7Cce6d05e13c5e4d6287a84c4a2713c113*7C0*7C0*7C637795026944990348*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C3000&sdata=gRfN5WuMr4*2BLwZMRqPOPaTJ97VoUB*2FVRMELwu5lQeiU*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJQ!!IKRxdwAv5BmarQ!IcLaVAupTYedSuWIPJGuIdRdOzEq4sib8fyufCCcC5bvaoUXwfrn-27dvH_NVZ8$" target="_blank"><span style="color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">Professor,
Information Systems</span></a><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.proofpoint.com*2Fv2*2Furl*3Fu*3Dhttps-3A__www.avast.com_sig-2Demail-3Futm-5Fmedium-3Demail-26utm-5Fsource-3Dlink-26utm-5Fcampaign-3Dsig-2Demail-26utm-5Fcontent-3Dwebmail*26d*3DDwMFaQ*26c*3DslrrB7dE8n7gBJbeO0g-IQ*26r*3DwQR1NePCSj6dOGDD0r6B5Kn1fcNaTMg7tARe7TdEDqQ*26m*3DwaSKY67JF57IZXg30ysFB_R7OG9zoQwFwxyps6FbTa1Zh5mttxRot_t4N7mn68Pj*26s*3DAo9QQWtO62go0hx1tb3NU6xw2FNBadjj8q64-hl5Sx4*26e*3D&data=04*7C01*7Ctgd*40oregonstate.edu*7C3db6ca275cc748415eaa08d9e732a318*7Cce6d05e13c5e4d6287a84c4a2713c113*7C0*7C0*7C637795026944990348*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C3000&sdata=gRfN5WuMr4*2BLwZMRqPOPaTJ97VoUB*2FVRMELwu5lQeiU*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJQ!!IKRxdwAv5BmarQ!IcLaVAupTYedSuWIPJGuIdRdOzEq4sib8fyufCCcC5bvaoUXwfrn-27dvH_NVZ8$" target="_blank"><span style="color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">Arizona
State University</span></a><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.proofpoint.com*2Fv2*2Furl*3Fu*3Dhttps-3A__www.avast.com_sig-2Demail-3Futm-5Fmedium-3Demail-26utm-5Fsource-3Dlink-26utm-5Fcampaign-3Dsig-2Demail-26utm-5Fcontent-3Dwebmail*26d*3DDwMFaQ*26c*3DslrrB7dE8n7gBJbeO0g-IQ*26r*3DwQR1NePCSj6dOGDD0r6B5Kn1fcNaTMg7tARe7TdEDqQ*26m*3DwaSKY67JF57IZXg30ysFB_R7OG9zoQwFwxyps6FbTa1Zh5mttxRot_t4N7mn68Pj*26s*3DAo9QQWtO62go0hx1tb3NU6xw2FNBadjj8q64-hl5Sx4*26e*3D&data=04*7C01*7Ctgd*40oregonstate.edu*7C3db6ca275cc748415eaa08d9e732a318*7Cce6d05e13c5e4d6287a84c4a2713c113*7C0*7C0*7C637795026944990348*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C3000&sdata=gRfN5WuMr4*2BLwZMRqPOPaTJ97VoUB*2FVRMELwu5lQeiU*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJQ!!IKRxdwAv5BmarQ!IcLaVAupTYedSuWIPJGuIdRdOzEq4sib8fyufCCcC5bvaoUXwfrn-27dvH_NVZ8$" target="_blank">Lifeboat
Foundation Bios: Professor Asim Roy</a><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.proofpoint.com*2Fv2*2Furl*3Fu*3Dhttps-3A__www.avast.com_sig-2Demail-3Futm-5Fmedium-3Demail-26utm-5Fsource-3Dlink-26utm-5Fcampaign-3Dsig-2Demail-26utm-5Fcontent-3Dwebmail*26d*3DDwMFaQ*26c*3DslrrB7dE8n7gBJbeO0g-IQ*26r*3DwQR1NePCSj6dOGDD0r6B5Kn1fcNaTMg7tARe7TdEDqQ*26m*3DwaSKY67JF57IZXg30ysFB_R7OG9zoQwFwxyps6FbTa1Zh5mttxRot_t4N7mn68Pj*26s*3DAo9QQWtO62go0hx1tb3NU6xw2FNBadjj8q64-hl5Sx4*26e*3D&data=04*7C01*7Ctgd*40oregonstate.edu*7C3db6ca275cc748415eaa08d9e732a318*7Cce6d05e13c5e4d6287a84c4a2713c113*7C0*7C0*7C637795026944990348*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C3000&sdata=gRfN5WuMr4*2BLwZMRqPOPaTJ97VoUB*2FVRMELwu5lQeiU*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJQ!!IKRxdwAv5BmarQ!IcLaVAupTYedSuWIPJGuIdRdOzEq4sib8fyufCCcC5bvaoUXwfrn-27dvH_NVZ8$" target="_blank">Asim
Roy | iSearch (asu.edu)</a><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.proofpoint.com*2Fv2*2Furl*3Fu*3Dhttps-3A__www.avast.com_sig-2Demail-3Futm-5Fmedium-3Demail-26utm-5Fsource-3Dlink-26utm-5Fcampaign-3Dsig-2Demail-26utm-5Fcontent-3Dwebmail*26d*3DDwMFaQ*26c*3DslrrB7dE8n7gBJbeO0g-IQ*26r*3DwQR1NePCSj6dOGDD0r6B5Kn1fcNaTMg7tARe7TdEDqQ*26m*3DwaSKY67JF57IZXg30ysFB_R7OG9zoQwFwxyps6FbTa1Zh5mttxRot_t4N7mn68Pj*26s*3DAo9QQWtO62go0hx1tb3NU6xw2FNBadjj8q64-hl5Sx4*26e*3D&data=04*7C01*7Ctgd*40oregonstate.edu*7C3db6ca275cc748415eaa08d9e732a318*7Cce6d05e13c5e4d6287a84c4a2713c113*7C0*7C0*7C637795026944990348*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C3000&sdata=gRfN5WuMr4*2BLwZMRqPOPaTJ97VoUB*2FVRMELwu5lQeiU*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJQ!!IKRxdwAv5BmarQ!IcLaVAupTYedSuWIPJGuIdRdOzEq4sib8fyufCCcC5bvaoUXwfrn-27dvH_NVZ8$" target="_blank"><span style="color:windowtext;text-decoration:none"> </span></a><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.proofpoint.com*2Fv2*2Furl*3Fu*3Dhttps-3A__www.avast.com_sig-2Demail-3Futm-5Fmedium-3Demail-26utm-5Fsource-3Dlink-26utm-5Fcampaign-3Dsig-2Demail-26utm-5Fcontent-3Dwebmail*26d*3DDwMFaQ*26c*3DslrrB7dE8n7gBJbeO0g-IQ*26r*3DwQR1NePCSj6dOGDD0r6B5Kn1fcNaTMg7tARe7TdEDqQ*26m*3DwaSKY67JF57IZXg30ysFB_R7OG9zoQwFwxyps6FbTa1Zh5mttxRot_t4N7mn68Pj*26s*3DAo9QQWtO62go0hx1tb3NU6xw2FNBadjj8q64-hl5Sx4*26e*3D&data=04*7C01*7Ctgd*40oregonstate.edu*7C3db6ca275cc748415eaa08d9e732a318*7Cce6d05e13c5e4d6287a84c4a2713c113*7C0*7C0*7C637795026944990348*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C3000&sdata=gRfN5WuMr4*2BLwZMRqPOPaTJ97VoUB*2FVRMELwu5lQeiU*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJQ!!IKRxdwAv5BmarQ!IcLaVAupTYedSuWIPJGuIdRdOzEq4sib8fyufCCcC5bvaoUXwfrn-27dvH_NVZ8$" target="_blank"><span style="color:windowtext;text-decoration:none"> </span></a><u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<div style="border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-left:none;border-top:1pt solid rgb(225,225,225);padding:3pt 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.proofpoint.com*2Fv2*2Furl*3Fu*3Dhttps-3A__www.avast.com_sig-2Demail-3Futm-5Fmedium-3Demail-26utm-5Fsource-3Dlink-26utm-5Fcampaign-3Dsig-2Demail-26utm-5Fcontent-3Dwebmail*26d*3DDwMFaQ*26c*3DslrrB7dE8n7gBJbeO0g-IQ*26r*3DwQR1NePCSj6dOGDD0r6B5Kn1fcNaTMg7tARe7TdEDqQ*26m*3DwaSKY67JF57IZXg30ysFB_R7OG9zoQwFwxyps6FbTa1Zh5mttxRot_t4N7mn68Pj*26s*3DAo9QQWtO62go0hx1tb3NU6xw2FNBadjj8q64-hl5Sx4*26e*3D&data=04*7C01*7Ctgd*40oregonstate.edu*7C3db6ca275cc748415eaa08d9e732a318*7Cce6d05e13c5e4d6287a84c4a2713c113*7C0*7C0*7C637795026944990348*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C3000&sdata=gRfN5WuMr4*2BLwZMRqPOPaTJ97VoUB*2FVRMELwu5lQeiU*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJQ!!IKRxdwAv5BmarQ!IcLaVAupTYedSuWIPJGuIdRdOzEq4sib8fyufCCcC5bvaoUXwfrn-27dvH_NVZ8$" target="_blank"><span style="color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">From:</span><span style="color:windowtext;font-weight:normal;text-decoration:none">
Connectionists <</span><span style="font-weight:normal">connectionists-bounces@mailman.srv.cs.cmu.edu</span><span style="color:windowtext;font-weight:normal;text-decoration:none">>
</span><span style="color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">On Behalf Of </span><span style="color:windowtext;font-weight:normal;text-decoration:none">Gary Marcus<br>
</span><span style="color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">Sent:</span><span style="color:windowtext;font-weight:normal;text-decoration:none"> Wednesday, February 2, 2022 1:26 PM<br>
</span><span style="color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">To:</span><span style="color:windowtext;font-weight:normal;text-decoration:none"> Geoffrey Hinton <</span><span style="font-weight:normal">geoffrey.hinton@gmail.com</span><span style="color:windowtext;font-weight:normal;text-decoration:none">><br>
</span><span style="color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">Cc:</span><span style="color:windowtext;font-weight:normal;text-decoration:none"> AIhub <</span><span style="font-weight:normal">aihuborg@gmail.com</span><span style="color:windowtext;font-weight:normal;text-decoration:none">>;
</span><span style="font-weight:normal">connectionists@mailman.srv.cs.cmu.edu</span><span style="color:windowtext;font-weight:normal;text-decoration:none"><br>
</span><span style="color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">Subject:</span><span style="color:windowtext;font-weight:normal;text-decoration:none"> Re: Connectionists: Stephen Hanson in conversation with Geoff Hinton</span></a></b><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.proofpoint.com*2Fv2*2Furl*3Fu*3Dhttps-3A__www.avast.com_sig-2Demail-3Futm-5Fmedium-3Demail-26utm-5Fsource-3Dlink-26utm-5Fcampaign-3Dsig-2Demail-26utm-5Fcontent-3Dwebmail*26d*3DDwMFaQ*26c*3DslrrB7dE8n7gBJbeO0g-IQ*26r*3DwQR1NePCSj6dOGDD0r6B5Kn1fcNaTMg7tARe7TdEDqQ*26m*3DwaSKY67JF57IZXg30ysFB_R7OG9zoQwFwxyps6FbTa1Zh5mttxRot_t4N7mn68Pj*26s*3DAo9QQWtO62go0hx1tb3NU6xw2FNBadjj8q64-hl5Sx4*26e*3D&data=04*7C01*7Ctgd*40oregonstate.edu*7C3db6ca275cc748415eaa08d9e732a318*7Cce6d05e13c5e4d6287a84c4a2713c113*7C0*7C0*7C637795026944990348*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C3000&sdata=gRfN5WuMr4*2BLwZMRqPOPaTJ97VoUB*2FVRMELwu5lQeiU*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJQ!!IKRxdwAv5BmarQ!IcLaVAupTYedSuWIPJGuIdRdOzEq4sib8fyufCCcC5bvaoUXwfrn-27dvH_NVZ8$" target="_blank"><span style="color:windowtext;text-decoration:none"> </span></a><u></u><u></u></p>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.proofpoint.com*2Fv2*2Furl*3Fu*3Dhttps-3A__www.avast.com_sig-2Demail-3Futm-5Fmedium-3Demail-26utm-5Fsource-3Dlink-26utm-5Fcampaign-3Dsig-2Demail-26utm-5Fcontent-3Dwebmail*26d*3DDwMFaQ*26c*3DslrrB7dE8n7gBJbeO0g-IQ*26r*3DwQR1NePCSj6dOGDD0r6B5Kn1fcNaTMg7tARe7TdEDqQ*26m*3DwaSKY67JF57IZXg30ysFB_R7OG9zoQwFwxyps6FbTa1Zh5mttxRot_t4N7mn68Pj*26s*3DAo9QQWtO62go0hx1tb3NU6xw2FNBadjj8q64-hl5Sx4*26e*3D&data=04*7C01*7Ctgd*40oregonstate.edu*7C3db6ca275cc748415eaa08d9e732a318*7Cce6d05e13c5e4d6287a84c4a2713c113*7C0*7C0*7C637795026944990348*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C3000&sdata=gRfN5WuMr4*2BLwZMRqPOPaTJ97VoUB*2FVRMELwu5lQeiU*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJQ!!IKRxdwAv5BmarQ!IcLaVAupTYedSuWIPJGuIdRdOzEq4sib8fyufCCcC5bvaoUXwfrn-27dvH_NVZ8$" target="_blank"><span style="color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">Dear
Geoff, and interested others,</span></a><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.proofpoint.com*2Fv2*2Furl*3Fu*3Dhttps-3A__www.avast.com_sig-2Demail-3Futm-5Fmedium-3Demail-26utm-5Fsource-3Dlink-26utm-5Fcampaign-3Dsig-2Demail-26utm-5Fcontent-3Dwebmail*26d*3DDwMFaQ*26c*3DslrrB7dE8n7gBJbeO0g-IQ*26r*3DwQR1NePCSj6dOGDD0r6B5Kn1fcNaTMg7tARe7TdEDqQ*26m*3DwaSKY67JF57IZXg30ysFB_R7OG9zoQwFwxyps6FbTa1Zh5mttxRot_t4N7mn68Pj*26s*3DAo9QQWtO62go0hx1tb3NU6xw2FNBadjj8q64-hl5Sx4*26e*3D&data=04*7C01*7Ctgd*40oregonstate.edu*7C3db6ca275cc748415eaa08d9e732a318*7Cce6d05e13c5e4d6287a84c4a2713c113*7C0*7C0*7C637795026944990348*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C3000&sdata=gRfN5WuMr4*2BLwZMRqPOPaTJ97VoUB*2FVRMELwu5lQeiU*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJQ!!IKRxdwAv5BmarQ!IcLaVAupTYedSuWIPJGuIdRdOzEq4sib8fyufCCcC5bvaoUXwfrn-27dvH_NVZ8$" target="_blank"><span style="color:windowtext;text-decoration:none"> </span></a><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.proofpoint.com*2Fv2*2Furl*3Fu*3Dhttps-3A__www.avast.com_sig-2Demail-3Futm-5Fmedium-3Demail-26utm-5Fsource-3Dlink-26utm-5Fcampaign-3Dsig-2Demail-26utm-5Fcontent-3Dwebmail*26d*3DDwMFaQ*26c*3DslrrB7dE8n7gBJbeO0g-IQ*26r*3DwQR1NePCSj6dOGDD0r6B5Kn1fcNaTMg7tARe7TdEDqQ*26m*3DwaSKY67JF57IZXg30ysFB_R7OG9zoQwFwxyps6FbTa1Zh5mttxRot_t4N7mn68Pj*26s*3DAo9QQWtO62go0hx1tb3NU6xw2FNBadjj8q64-hl5Sx4*26e*3D&data=04*7C01*7Ctgd*40oregonstate.edu*7C3db6ca275cc748415eaa08d9e732a318*7Cce6d05e13c5e4d6287a84c4a2713c113*7C0*7C0*7C637795026944990348*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C3000&sdata=gRfN5WuMr4*2BLwZMRqPOPaTJ97VoUB*2FVRMELwu5lQeiU*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJQ!!IKRxdwAv5BmarQ!IcLaVAupTYedSuWIPJGuIdRdOzEq4sib8fyufCCcC5bvaoUXwfrn-27dvH_NVZ8$" target="_blank"><span style="color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">What,
for example, would you make of a system that often drew the red-hatted hamster you requested, and perhaps a fifth of the time gave you utter nonsense? Or say one that you trained to create birds but sometimes output stuff like this:</span></a><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.proofpoint.com*2Fv2*2Furl*3Fu*3Dhttps-3A__www.avast.com_sig-2Demail-3Futm-5Fmedium-3Demail-26utm-5Fsource-3Dlink-26utm-5Fcampaign-3Dsig-2Demail-26utm-5Fcontent-3Dwebmail*26d*3DDwMFaQ*26c*3DslrrB7dE8n7gBJbeO0g-IQ*26r*3DwQR1NePCSj6dOGDD0r6B5Kn1fcNaTMg7tARe7TdEDqQ*26m*3DwaSKY67JF57IZXg30ysFB_R7OG9zoQwFwxyps6FbTa1Zh5mttxRot_t4N7mn68Pj*26s*3DAo9QQWtO62go0hx1tb3NU6xw2FNBadjj8q64-hl5Sx4*26e*3D&data=04*7C01*7Ctgd*40oregonstate.edu*7C3db6ca275cc748415eaa08d9e732a318*7Cce6d05e13c5e4d6287a84c4a2713c113*7C0*7C0*7C637795026944990348*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C3000&sdata=gRfN5WuMr4*2BLwZMRqPOPaTJ97VoUB*2FVRMELwu5lQeiU*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJQ!!IKRxdwAv5BmarQ!IcLaVAupTYedSuWIPJGuIdRdOzEq4sib8fyufCCcC5bvaoUXwfrn-27dvH_NVZ8$" target="_blank"><span style="color:windowtext;text-decoration:none"> </span></a><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.proofpoint.com*2Fv2*2Furl*3Fu*3Dhttps-3A__www.avast.com_sig-2Demail-3Futm-5Fmedium-3Demail-26utm-5Fsource-3Dlink-26utm-5Fcampaign-3Dsig-2Demail-26utm-5Fcontent-3Dwebmail*26d*3DDwMFaQ*26c*3DslrrB7dE8n7gBJbeO0g-IQ*26r*3DwQR1NePCSj6dOGDD0r6B5Kn1fcNaTMg7tARe7TdEDqQ*26m*3DwaSKY67JF57IZXg30ysFB_R7OG9zoQwFwxyps6FbTa1Zh5mttxRot_t4N7mn68Pj*26s*3DAo9QQWtO62go0hx1tb3NU6xw2FNBadjj8q64-hl5Sx4*26e*3D&data=04*7C01*7Ctgd*40oregonstate.edu*7C3db6ca275cc748415eaa08d9e732a318*7Cce6d05e13c5e4d6287a84c4a2713c113*7C0*7C0*7C637795026944990348*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C3000&sdata=gRfN5WuMr4*2BLwZMRqPOPaTJ97VoUB*2FVRMELwu5lQeiU*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJQ!!IKRxdwAv5BmarQ!IcLaVAupTYedSuWIPJGuIdRdOzEq4sib8fyufCCcC5bvaoUXwfrn-27dvH_NVZ8$" target="_blank"><span style="color:windowtext;text-decoration:none"><image001.png></span></a><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.proofpoint.com*2Fv2*2Furl*3Fu*3Dhttps-3A__www.avast.com_sig-2Demail-3Futm-5Fmedium-3Demail-26utm-5Fsource-3Dlink-26utm-5Fcampaign-3Dsig-2Demail-26utm-5Fcontent-3Dwebmail*26d*3DDwMFaQ*26c*3DslrrB7dE8n7gBJbeO0g-IQ*26r*3DwQR1NePCSj6dOGDD0r6B5Kn1fcNaTMg7tARe7TdEDqQ*26m*3DwaSKY67JF57IZXg30ysFB_R7OG9zoQwFwxyps6FbTa1Zh5mttxRot_t4N7mn68Pj*26s*3DAo9QQWtO62go0hx1tb3NU6xw2FNBadjj8q64-hl5Sx4*26e*3D&data=04*7C01*7Ctgd*40oregonstate.edu*7C3db6ca275cc748415eaa08d9e732a318*7Cce6d05e13c5e4d6287a84c4a2713c113*7C0*7C0*7C637795026944990348*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C3000&sdata=gRfN5WuMr4*2BLwZMRqPOPaTJ97VoUB*2FVRMELwu5lQeiU*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJQ!!IKRxdwAv5BmarQ!IcLaVAupTYedSuWIPJGuIdRdOzEq4sib8fyufCCcC5bvaoUXwfrn-27dvH_NVZ8$" target="_blank"><span style="color:windowtext;text-decoration:none"> </span></a><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.proofpoint.com*2Fv2*2Furl*3Fu*3Dhttps-3A__www.avast.com_sig-2Demail-3Futm-5Fmedium-3Demail-26utm-5Fsource-3Dlink-26utm-5Fcampaign-3Dsig-2Demail-26utm-5Fcontent-3Dwebmail*26d*3DDwMFaQ*26c*3DslrrB7dE8n7gBJbeO0g-IQ*26r*3DwQR1NePCSj6dOGDD0r6B5Kn1fcNaTMg7tARe7TdEDqQ*26m*3DwaSKY67JF57IZXg30ysFB_R7OG9zoQwFwxyps6FbTa1Zh5mttxRot_t4N7mn68Pj*26s*3DAo9QQWtO62go0hx1tb3NU6xw2FNBadjj8q64-hl5Sx4*26e*3D&data=04*7C01*7Ctgd*40oregonstate.edu*7C3db6ca275cc748415eaa08d9e732a318*7Cce6d05e13c5e4d6287a84c4a2713c113*7C0*7C0*7C637795026944990348*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C3000&sdata=gRfN5WuMr4*2BLwZMRqPOPaTJ97VoUB*2FVRMELwu5lQeiU*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJQ!!IKRxdwAv5BmarQ!IcLaVAupTYedSuWIPJGuIdRdOzEq4sib8fyufCCcC5bvaoUXwfrn-27dvH_NVZ8$" target="_blank"><span style="color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">One
could </span></a><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.proofpoint.com*2Fv2*2Furl*3Fu*3Dhttps-3A__www.avast.com_sig-2Demail-3Futm-5Fmedium-3Demail-26utm-5Fsource-3Dlink-26utm-5Fcampaign-3Dsig-2Demail-26utm-5Fcontent-3Dwebmail*26d*3DDwMFaQ*26c*3DslrrB7dE8n7gBJbeO0g-IQ*26r*3DwQR1NePCSj6dOGDD0r6B5Kn1fcNaTMg7tARe7TdEDqQ*26m*3DwaSKY67JF57IZXg30ysFB_R7OG9zoQwFwxyps6FbTa1Zh5mttxRot_t4N7mn68Pj*26s*3DAo9QQWtO62go0hx1tb3NU6xw2FNBadjj8q64-hl5Sx4*26e*3D&data=04*7C01*7Ctgd*40oregonstate.edu*7C3db6ca275cc748415eaa08d9e732a318*7Cce6d05e13c5e4d6287a84c4a2713c113*7C0*7C0*7C637795026944990348*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C3000&sdata=gRfN5WuMr4*2BLwZMRqPOPaTJ97VoUB*2FVRMELwu5lQeiU*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJQ!!IKRxdwAv5BmarQ!IcLaVAupTYedSuWIPJGuIdRdOzEq4sib8fyufCCcC5bvaoUXwfrn-27dvH_NVZ8$" target="_blank"><span style="color:windowtext;text-decoration:none"> </span></a><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.proofpoint.com*2Fv2*2Furl*3Fu*3Dhttps-3A__www.avast.com_sig-2Demail-3Futm-5Fmedium-3Demail-26utm-5Fsource-3Dlink-26utm-5Fcampaign-3Dsig-2Demail-26utm-5Fcontent-3Dwebmail*26d*3DDwMFaQ*26c*3DslrrB7dE8n7gBJbeO0g-IQ*26r*3DwQR1NePCSj6dOGDD0r6B5Kn1fcNaTMg7tARe7TdEDqQ*26m*3DwaSKY67JF57IZXg30ysFB_R7OG9zoQwFwxyps6FbTa1Zh5mttxRot_t4N7mn68Pj*26s*3DAo9QQWtO62go0hx1tb3NU6xw2FNBadjj8q64-hl5Sx4*26e*3D&data=04*7C01*7Ctgd*40oregonstate.edu*7C3db6ca275cc748415eaa08d9e732a318*7Cce6d05e13c5e4d6287a84c4a2713c113*7C0*7C0*7C637795026944990348*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C3000&sdata=gRfN5WuMr4*2BLwZMRqPOPaTJ97VoUB*2FVRMELwu5lQeiU*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJQ!!IKRxdwAv5BmarQ!IcLaVAupTYedSuWIPJGuIdRdOzEq4sib8fyufCCcC5bvaoUXwfrn-27dvH_NVZ8$" target="_blank"><span style="color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">a.
avert one’s eyes and deem the anomalous outputs irrelevant</span></a><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.proofpoint.com*2Fv2*2Furl*3Fu*3Dhttps-3A__www.avast.com_sig-2Demail-3Futm-5Fmedium-3Demail-26utm-5Fsource-3Dlink-26utm-5Fcampaign-3Dsig-2Demail-26utm-5Fcontent-3Dwebmail*26d*3DDwMFaQ*26c*3DslrrB7dE8n7gBJbeO0g-IQ*26r*3DwQR1NePCSj6dOGDD0r6B5Kn1fcNaTMg7tARe7TdEDqQ*26m*3DwaSKY67JF57IZXg30ysFB_R7OG9zoQwFwxyps6FbTa1Zh5mttxRot_t4N7mn68Pj*26s*3DAo9QQWtO62go0hx1tb3NU6xw2FNBadjj8q64-hl5Sx4*26e*3D&data=04*7C01*7Ctgd*40oregonstate.edu*7C3db6ca275cc748415eaa08d9e732a318*7Cce6d05e13c5e4d6287a84c4a2713c113*7C0*7C0*7C637795026944990348*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C3000&sdata=gRfN5WuMr4*2BLwZMRqPOPaTJ97VoUB*2FVRMELwu5lQeiU*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJQ!!IKRxdwAv5BmarQ!IcLaVAupTYedSuWIPJGuIdRdOzEq4sib8fyufCCcC5bvaoUXwfrn-27dvH_NVZ8$" target="_blank"><span style="color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">or</span></a><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.proofpoint.com*2Fv2*2Furl*3Fu*3Dhttps-3A__www.avast.com_sig-2Demail-3Futm-5Fmedium-3Demail-26utm-5Fsource-3Dlink-26utm-5Fcampaign-3Dsig-2Demail-26utm-5Fcontent-3Dwebmail*26d*3DDwMFaQ*26c*3DslrrB7dE8n7gBJbeO0g-IQ*26r*3DwQR1NePCSj6dOGDD0r6B5Kn1fcNaTMg7tARe7TdEDqQ*26m*3DwaSKY67JF57IZXg30ysFB_R7OG9zoQwFwxyps6FbTa1Zh5mttxRot_t4N7mn68Pj*26s*3DAo9QQWtO62go0hx1tb3NU6xw2FNBadjj8q64-hl5Sx4*26e*3D&data=04*7C01*7Ctgd*40oregonstate.edu*7C3db6ca275cc748415eaa08d9e732a318*7Cce6d05e13c5e4d6287a84c4a2713c113*7C0*7C0*7C637795026944990348*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C3000&sdata=gRfN5WuMr4*2BLwZMRqPOPaTJ97VoUB*2FVRMELwu5lQeiU*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJQ!!IKRxdwAv5BmarQ!IcLaVAupTYedSuWIPJGuIdRdOzEq4sib8fyufCCcC5bvaoUXwfrn-27dvH_NVZ8$" target="_blank"><span style="color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">b.
wonder if it might be possible that sometimes the system gets the right answer for the wrong reasons (eg partial historical contingency), and wonder whether another approach might be indicated.</span></a><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.proofpoint.com*2Fv2*2Furl*3Fu*3Dhttps-3A__www.avast.com_sig-2Demail-3Futm-5Fmedium-3Demail-26utm-5Fsource-3Dlink-26utm-5Fcampaign-3Dsig-2Demail-26utm-5Fcontent-3Dwebmail*26d*3DDwMFaQ*26c*3DslrrB7dE8n7gBJbeO0g-IQ*26r*3DwQR1NePCSj6dOGDD0r6B5Kn1fcNaTMg7tARe7TdEDqQ*26m*3DwaSKY67JF57IZXg30ysFB_R7OG9zoQwFwxyps6FbTa1Zh5mttxRot_t4N7mn68Pj*26s*3DAo9QQWtO62go0hx1tb3NU6xw2FNBadjj8q64-hl5Sx4*26e*3D&data=04*7C01*7Ctgd*40oregonstate.edu*7C3db6ca275cc748415eaa08d9e732a318*7Cce6d05e13c5e4d6287a84c4a2713c113*7C0*7C0*7C637795026944990348*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C3000&sdata=gRfN5WuMr4*2BLwZMRqPOPaTJ97VoUB*2FVRMELwu5lQeiU*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJQ!!IKRxdwAv5BmarQ!IcLaVAupTYedSuWIPJGuIdRdOzEq4sib8fyufCCcC5bvaoUXwfrn-27dvH_NVZ8$" target="_blank"><span style="color:windowtext;text-decoration:none"> </span></a><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.proofpoint.com*2Fv2*2Furl*3Fu*3Dhttps-3A__www.avast.com_sig-2Demail-3Futm-5Fmedium-3Demail-26utm-5Fsource-3Dlink-26utm-5Fcampaign-3Dsig-2Demail-26utm-5Fcontent-3Dwebmail*26d*3DDwMFaQ*26c*3DslrrB7dE8n7gBJbeO0g-IQ*26r*3DwQR1NePCSj6dOGDD0r6B5Kn1fcNaTMg7tARe7TdEDqQ*26m*3DwaSKY67JF57IZXg30ysFB_R7OG9zoQwFwxyps6FbTa1Zh5mttxRot_t4N7mn68Pj*26s*3DAo9QQWtO62go0hx1tb3NU6xw2FNBadjj8q64-hl5Sx4*26e*3D&data=04*7C01*7Ctgd*40oregonstate.edu*7C3db6ca275cc748415eaa08d9e732a318*7Cce6d05e13c5e4d6287a84c4a2713c113*7C0*7C0*7C637795026944990348*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C3000&sdata=gRfN5WuMr4*2BLwZMRqPOPaTJ97VoUB*2FVRMELwu5lQeiU*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJQ!!IKRxdwAv5BmarQ!IcLaVAupTYedSuWIPJGuIdRdOzEq4sib8fyufCCcC5bvaoUXwfrn-27dvH_NVZ8$" target="_blank"><span style="color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">Benchmarks
are harder than they look; most of the field has come to recognize that. The Turing Test has turned out to be a lousy measure of intelligence, easily gamed. It has turned out empirically that the Winograd Schema Challenge did not measure common sense as well
as Hector might have thought. (As it happens, I am a minor coauthor of a very recent review on this very topic: </span>https://arxiv.org/abs/2201.02387<span style="color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">) But its conquest in no way means machines now have
common sense; many people from many different perspectives recognize that (including, e.g., Yann LeCun, who generally tends to be more aligned with you than with me).</span></a><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.proofpoint.com*2Fv2*2Furl*3Fu*3Dhttps-3A__www.avast.com_sig-2Demail-3Futm-5Fmedium-3Demail-26utm-5Fsource-3Dlink-26utm-5Fcampaign-3Dsig-2Demail-26utm-5Fcontent-3Dwebmail*26d*3DDwMFaQ*26c*3DslrrB7dE8n7gBJbeO0g-IQ*26r*3DwQR1NePCSj6dOGDD0r6B5Kn1fcNaTMg7tARe7TdEDqQ*26m*3DwaSKY67JF57IZXg30ysFB_R7OG9zoQwFwxyps6FbTa1Zh5mttxRot_t4N7mn68Pj*26s*3DAo9QQWtO62go0hx1tb3NU6xw2FNBadjj8q64-hl5Sx4*26e*3D&data=04*7C01*7Ctgd*40oregonstate.edu*7C3db6ca275cc748415eaa08d9e732a318*7Cce6d05e13c5e4d6287a84c4a2713c113*7C0*7C0*7C637795026944990348*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C3000&sdata=gRfN5WuMr4*2BLwZMRqPOPaTJ97VoUB*2FVRMELwu5lQeiU*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJQ!!IKRxdwAv5BmarQ!IcLaVAupTYedSuWIPJGuIdRdOzEq4sib8fyufCCcC5bvaoUXwfrn-27dvH_NVZ8$" target="_blank"><span style="color:windowtext;text-decoration:none"> </span></a><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.proofpoint.com*2Fv2*2Furl*3Fu*3Dhttps-3A__www.avast.com_sig-2Demail-3Futm-5Fmedium-3Demail-26utm-5Fsource-3Dlink-26utm-5Fcampaign-3Dsig-2Demail-26utm-5Fcontent-3Dwebmail*26d*3DDwMFaQ*26c*3DslrrB7dE8n7gBJbeO0g-IQ*26r*3DwQR1NePCSj6dOGDD0r6B5Kn1fcNaTMg7tARe7TdEDqQ*26m*3DwaSKY67JF57IZXg30ysFB_R7OG9zoQwFwxyps6FbTa1Zh5mttxRot_t4N7mn68Pj*26s*3DAo9QQWtO62go0hx1tb3NU6xw2FNBadjj8q64-hl5Sx4*26e*3D&data=04*7C01*7Ctgd*40oregonstate.edu*7C3db6ca275cc748415eaa08d9e732a318*7Cce6d05e13c5e4d6287a84c4a2713c113*7C0*7C0*7C637795026944990348*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C3000&sdata=gRfN5WuMr4*2BLwZMRqPOPaTJ97VoUB*2FVRMELwu5lQeiU*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJQ!!IKRxdwAv5BmarQ!IcLaVAupTYedSuWIPJGuIdRdOzEq4sib8fyufCCcC5bvaoUXwfrn-27dvH_NVZ8$" target="_blank"><span style="color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">So:
on the goalpost of the Winograd schema, I was wrong, and you can quote me; but what you said about me and machine translation remains your invention, and it is inexcusable that you simply ignored my 2019 clarification. On the essential goal of trying to reach
meaning and understanding, I remain unmoved; the problem remains unsolved. </span></a><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.proofpoint.com*2Fv2*2Furl*3Fu*3Dhttps-3A__www.avast.com_sig-2Demail-3Futm-5Fmedium-3Demail-26utm-5Fsource-3Dlink-26utm-5Fcampaign-3Dsig-2Demail-26utm-5Fcontent-3Dwebmail*26d*3DDwMFaQ*26c*3DslrrB7dE8n7gBJbeO0g-IQ*26r*3DwQR1NePCSj6dOGDD0r6B5Kn1fcNaTMg7tARe7TdEDqQ*26m*3DwaSKY67JF57IZXg30ysFB_R7OG9zoQwFwxyps6FbTa1Zh5mttxRot_t4N7mn68Pj*26s*3DAo9QQWtO62go0hx1tb3NU6xw2FNBadjj8q64-hl5Sx4*26e*3D&data=04*7C01*7Ctgd*40oregonstate.edu*7C3db6ca275cc748415eaa08d9e732a318*7Cce6d05e13c5e4d6287a84c4a2713c113*7C0*7C0*7C637795026944990348*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C3000&sdata=gRfN5WuMr4*2BLwZMRqPOPaTJ97VoUB*2FVRMELwu5lQeiU*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJQ!!IKRxdwAv5BmarQ!IcLaVAupTYedSuWIPJGuIdRdOzEq4sib8fyufCCcC5bvaoUXwfrn-27dvH_NVZ8$" target="_blank"><span style="color:windowtext;text-decoration:none"> </span></a><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.proofpoint.com*2Fv2*2Furl*3Fu*3Dhttps-3A__www.avast.com_sig-2Demail-3Futm-5Fmedium-3Demail-26utm-5Fsource-3Dlink-26utm-5Fcampaign-3Dsig-2Demail-26utm-5Fcontent-3Dwebmail*26d*3DDwMFaQ*26c*3DslrrB7dE8n7gBJbeO0g-IQ*26r*3DwQR1NePCSj6dOGDD0r6B5Kn1fcNaTMg7tARe7TdEDqQ*26m*3DwaSKY67JF57IZXg30ysFB_R7OG9zoQwFwxyps6FbTa1Zh5mttxRot_t4N7mn68Pj*26s*3DAo9QQWtO62go0hx1tb3NU6xw2FNBadjj8q64-hl5Sx4*26e*3D&data=04*7C01*7Ctgd*40oregonstate.edu*7C3db6ca275cc748415eaa08d9e732a318*7Cce6d05e13c5e4d6287a84c4a2713c113*7C0*7C0*7C637795026944990348*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C3000&sdata=gRfN5WuMr4*2BLwZMRqPOPaTJ97VoUB*2FVRMELwu5lQeiU*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJQ!!IKRxdwAv5BmarQ!IcLaVAupTYedSuWIPJGuIdRdOzEq4sib8fyufCCcC5bvaoUXwfrn-27dvH_NVZ8$" target="_blank"><span style="color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">All
of the problems LLMs have with coherence, reliability, truthfulness, misinformation, etc stand witness to that fact. (Their persistent inability to filter out toxic and insulting remarks stems from the same.) I am hardly the only person in the field to see
that progress on any given benchmark does not inherently mean that the deep underlying problems have solved. You, yourself, in fact, have occasionally made that point. </span></a><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.proofpoint.com*2Fv2*2Furl*3Fu*3Dhttps-3A__www.avast.com_sig-2Demail-3Futm-5Fmedium-3Demail-26utm-5Fsource-3Dlink-26utm-5Fcampaign-3Dsig-2Demail-26utm-5Fcontent-3Dwebmail*26d*3DDwMFaQ*26c*3DslrrB7dE8n7gBJbeO0g-IQ*26r*3DwQR1NePCSj6dOGDD0r6B5Kn1fcNaTMg7tARe7TdEDqQ*26m*3DwaSKY67JF57IZXg30ysFB_R7OG9zoQwFwxyps6FbTa1Zh5mttxRot_t4N7mn68Pj*26s*3DAo9QQWtO62go0hx1tb3NU6xw2FNBadjj8q64-hl5Sx4*26e*3D&data=04*7C01*7Ctgd*40oregonstate.edu*7C3db6ca275cc748415eaa08d9e732a318*7Cce6d05e13c5e4d6287a84c4a2713c113*7C0*7C0*7C637795026944990348*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C3000&sdata=gRfN5WuMr4*2BLwZMRqPOPaTJ97VoUB*2FVRMELwu5lQeiU*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJQ!!IKRxdwAv5BmarQ!IcLaVAupTYedSuWIPJGuIdRdOzEq4sib8fyufCCcC5bvaoUXwfrn-27dvH_NVZ8$" target="_blank"><span style="color:windowtext;text-decoration:none"> </span></a><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.proofpoint.com*2Fv2*2Furl*3Fu*3Dhttps-3A__www.avast.com_sig-2Demail-3Futm-5Fmedium-3Demail-26utm-5Fsource-3Dlink-26utm-5Fcampaign-3Dsig-2Demail-26utm-5Fcontent-3Dwebmail*26d*3DDwMFaQ*26c*3DslrrB7dE8n7gBJbeO0g-IQ*26r*3DwQR1NePCSj6dOGDD0r6B5Kn1fcNaTMg7tARe7TdEDqQ*26m*3DwaSKY67JF57IZXg30ysFB_R7OG9zoQwFwxyps6FbTa1Zh5mttxRot_t4N7mn68Pj*26s*3DAo9QQWtO62go0hx1tb3NU6xw2FNBadjj8q64-hl5Sx4*26e*3D&data=04*7C01*7Ctgd*40oregonstate.edu*7C3db6ca275cc748415eaa08d9e732a318*7Cce6d05e13c5e4d6287a84c4a2713c113*7C0*7C0*7C637795026944990348*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C3000&sdata=gRfN5WuMr4*2BLwZMRqPOPaTJ97VoUB*2FVRMELwu5lQeiU*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJQ!!IKRxdwAv5BmarQ!IcLaVAupTYedSuWIPJGuIdRdOzEq4sib8fyufCCcC5bvaoUXwfrn-27dvH_NVZ8$" target="_blank"><span style="color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">With
respect to embeddings: Embeddings are very good for natural language <i>processing</i>; but NLP is not the same as NL<i>U</i> – when it comes to
<i>understanding</i>, their worth is still an open question. Perhaps they will turn out to be necessary; they clearly aren’t sufficient. In their extreme, they might even collapse into being symbols, in the sense of uniquely identifiable encodings, akin to
the ASCII code, in which a specific set of numbers stands for a specific word or concept. (Wouldn’t that be ironic?)</span></a><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.proofpoint.com*2Fv2*2Furl*3Fu*3Dhttps-3A__www.avast.com_sig-2Demail-3Futm-5Fmedium-3Demail-26utm-5Fsource-3Dlink-26utm-5Fcampaign-3Dsig-2Demail-26utm-5Fcontent-3Dwebmail*26d*3DDwMFaQ*26c*3DslrrB7dE8n7gBJbeO0g-IQ*26r*3DwQR1NePCSj6dOGDD0r6B5Kn1fcNaTMg7tARe7TdEDqQ*26m*3DwaSKY67JF57IZXg30ysFB_R7OG9zoQwFwxyps6FbTa1Zh5mttxRot_t4N7mn68Pj*26s*3DAo9QQWtO62go0hx1tb3NU6xw2FNBadjj8q64-hl5Sx4*26e*3D&data=04*7C01*7Ctgd*40oregonstate.edu*7C3db6ca275cc748415eaa08d9e732a318*7Cce6d05e13c5e4d6287a84c4a2713c113*7C0*7C0*7C637795026944990348*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C3000&sdata=gRfN5WuMr4*2BLwZMRqPOPaTJ97VoUB*2FVRMELwu5lQeiU*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJQ!!IKRxdwAv5BmarQ!IcLaVAupTYedSuWIPJGuIdRdOzEq4sib8fyufCCcC5bvaoUXwfrn-27dvH_NVZ8$" target="_blank"><span style="color:windowtext;text-decoration:none"> </span></a><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.proofpoint.com*2Fv2*2Furl*3Fu*3Dhttps-3A__www.avast.com_sig-2Demail-3Futm-5Fmedium-3Demail-26utm-5Fsource-3Dlink-26utm-5Fcampaign-3Dsig-2Demail-26utm-5Fcontent-3Dwebmail*26d*3DDwMFaQ*26c*3DslrrB7dE8n7gBJbeO0g-IQ*26r*3DwQR1NePCSj6dOGDD0r6B5Kn1fcNaTMg7tARe7TdEDqQ*26m*3DwaSKY67JF57IZXg30ysFB_R7OG9zoQwFwxyps6FbTa1Zh5mttxRot_t4N7mn68Pj*26s*3DAo9QQWtO62go0hx1tb3NU6xw2FNBadjj8q64-hl5Sx4*26e*3D&data=04*7C01*7Ctgd*40oregonstate.edu*7C3db6ca275cc748415eaa08d9e732a318*7Cce6d05e13c5e4d6287a84c4a2713c113*7C0*7C0*7C637795026944990348*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C3000&sdata=gRfN5WuMr4*2BLwZMRqPOPaTJ97VoUB*2FVRMELwu5lQeiU*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJQ!!IKRxdwAv5BmarQ!IcLaVAupTYedSuWIPJGuIdRdOzEq4sib8fyufCCcC5bvaoUXwfrn-27dvH_NVZ8$" target="_blank"><span style="color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">(Your
GLOM, which as you know I praised publicly, is in many ways an effort to wind up with encodings that effectively serve as symbols in exactly that way, guaranteed to serve as consistent representations of specific concepts.)</span></a><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.proofpoint.com*2Fv2*2Furl*3Fu*3Dhttps-3A__www.avast.com_sig-2Demail-3Futm-5Fmedium-3Demail-26utm-5Fsource-3Dlink-26utm-5Fcampaign-3Dsig-2Demail-26utm-5Fcontent-3Dwebmail*26d*3DDwMFaQ*26c*3DslrrB7dE8n7gBJbeO0g-IQ*26r*3DwQR1NePCSj6dOGDD0r6B5Kn1fcNaTMg7tARe7TdEDqQ*26m*3DwaSKY67JF57IZXg30ysFB_R7OG9zoQwFwxyps6FbTa1Zh5mttxRot_t4N7mn68Pj*26s*3DAo9QQWtO62go0hx1tb3NU6xw2FNBadjj8q64-hl5Sx4*26e*3D&data=04*7C01*7Ctgd*40oregonstate.edu*7C3db6ca275cc748415eaa08d9e732a318*7Cce6d05e13c5e4d6287a84c4a2713c113*7C0*7C0*7C637795026944990348*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C3000&sdata=gRfN5WuMr4*2BLwZMRqPOPaTJ97VoUB*2FVRMELwu5lQeiU*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJQ!!IKRxdwAv5BmarQ!IcLaVAupTYedSuWIPJGuIdRdOzEq4sib8fyufCCcC5bvaoUXwfrn-27dvH_NVZ8$" target="_blank"><span style="color:windowtext;text-decoration:none"> </span></a><u></u><u></u></p>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.proofpoint.com*2Fv2*2Furl*3Fu*3Dhttps-3A__www.avast.com_sig-2Demail-3Futm-5Fmedium-3Demail-26utm-5Fsource-3Dlink-26utm-5Fcampaign-3Dsig-2Demail-26utm-5Fcontent-3Dwebmail*26d*3DDwMFaQ*26c*3DslrrB7dE8n7gBJbeO0g-IQ*26r*3DwQR1NePCSj6dOGDD0r6B5Kn1fcNaTMg7tARe7TdEDqQ*26m*3DwaSKY67JF57IZXg30ysFB_R7OG9zoQwFwxyps6FbTa1Zh5mttxRot_t4N7mn68Pj*26s*3DAo9QQWtO62go0hx1tb3NU6xw2FNBadjj8q64-hl5Sx4*26e*3D&data=04*7C01*7Ctgd*40oregonstate.edu*7C3db6ca275cc748415eaa08d9e732a318*7Cce6d05e13c5e4d6287a84c4a2713c113*7C0*7C0*7C637795026944990348*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C3000&sdata=gRfN5WuMr4*2BLwZMRqPOPaTJ97VoUB*2FVRMELwu5lQeiU*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJQ!!IKRxdwAv5BmarQ!IcLaVAupTYedSuWIPJGuIdRdOzEq4sib8fyufCCcC5bvaoUXwfrn-27dvH_NVZ8$" target="_blank"><span style="color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">Notably
absent from your email is any kind of apology for misrepresenting my position. It’s fine to say that “many people thirty years ago once thought X” and another to say “Gary Marcus said X in 2015”, when I didn’t. I have consistently felt throughout our interactions
that you have mistaken me for Zenon Pylyshyn; indeed, you once (at NeurIPS 2014) apologized to me for having made that error. I am still not he. </span></a><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.proofpoint.com*2Fv2*2Furl*3Fu*3Dhttps-3A__www.avast.com_sig-2Demail-3Futm-5Fmedium-3Demail-26utm-5Fsource-3Dlink-26utm-5Fcampaign-3Dsig-2Demail-26utm-5Fcontent-3Dwebmail*26d*3DDwMFaQ*26c*3DslrrB7dE8n7gBJbeO0g-IQ*26r*3DwQR1NePCSj6dOGDD0r6B5Kn1fcNaTMg7tARe7TdEDqQ*26m*3DwaSKY67JF57IZXg30ysFB_R7OG9zoQwFwxyps6FbTa1Zh5mttxRot_t4N7mn68Pj*26s*3DAo9QQWtO62go0hx1tb3NU6xw2FNBadjj8q64-hl5Sx4*26e*3D&data=04*7C01*7Ctgd*40oregonstate.edu*7C3db6ca275cc748415eaa08d9e732a318*7Cce6d05e13c5e4d6287a84c4a2713c113*7C0*7C0*7C637795026944990348*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C3000&sdata=gRfN5WuMr4*2BLwZMRqPOPaTJ97VoUB*2FVRMELwu5lQeiU*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJQ!!IKRxdwAv5BmarQ!IcLaVAupTYedSuWIPJGuIdRdOzEq4sib8fyufCCcC5bvaoUXwfrn-27dvH_NVZ8$" target="_blank"><span style="color:windowtext;text-decoration:none"> </span></a><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.proofpoint.com*2Fv2*2Furl*3Fu*3Dhttps-3A__www.avast.com_sig-2Demail-3Futm-5Fmedium-3Demail-26utm-5Fsource-3Dlink-26utm-5Fcampaign-3Dsig-2Demail-26utm-5Fcontent-3Dwebmail*26d*3DDwMFaQ*26c*3DslrrB7dE8n7gBJbeO0g-IQ*26r*3DwQR1NePCSj6dOGDD0r6B5Kn1fcNaTMg7tARe7TdEDqQ*26m*3DwaSKY67JF57IZXg30ysFB_R7OG9zoQwFwxyps6FbTa1Zh5mttxRot_t4N7mn68Pj*26s*3DAo9QQWtO62go0hx1tb3NU6xw2FNBadjj8q64-hl5Sx4*26e*3D&data=04*7C01*7Ctgd*40oregonstate.edu*7C3db6ca275cc748415eaa08d9e732a318*7Cce6d05e13c5e4d6287a84c4a2713c113*7C0*7C0*7C637795026944990348*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C3000&sdata=gRfN5WuMr4*2BLwZMRqPOPaTJ97VoUB*2FVRMELwu5lQeiU*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJQ!!IKRxdwAv5BmarQ!IcLaVAupTYedSuWIPJGuIdRdOzEq4sib8fyufCCcC5bvaoUXwfrn-27dvH_NVZ8$" target="_blank"><span style="color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">Which
maybe connects to the last point; if you read my work, you would see thirty years of arguments
<i>for</i> neural networks, just not in the way that you want them to exist. I have ALWAYS argued that there is a role for them; characterizing me as a person “strongly opposed to neural networks” misses the whole point of my 2001 book, which was subtitled
“Integrating Connectionism and Cognitive Science.”</span></a><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.proofpoint.com*2Fv2*2Furl*3Fu*3Dhttps-3A__www.avast.com_sig-2Demail-3Futm-5Fmedium-3Demail-26utm-5Fsource-3Dlink-26utm-5Fcampaign-3Dsig-2Demail-26utm-5Fcontent-3Dwebmail*26d*3DDwMFaQ*26c*3DslrrB7dE8n7gBJbeO0g-IQ*26r*3DwQR1NePCSj6dOGDD0r6B5Kn1fcNaTMg7tARe7TdEDqQ*26m*3DwaSKY67JF57IZXg30ysFB_R7OG9zoQwFwxyps6FbTa1Zh5mttxRot_t4N7mn68Pj*26s*3DAo9QQWtO62go0hx1tb3NU6xw2FNBadjj8q64-hl5Sx4*26e*3D&data=04*7C01*7Ctgd*40oregonstate.edu*7C3db6ca275cc748415eaa08d9e732a318*7Cce6d05e13c5e4d6287a84c4a2713c113*7C0*7C0*7C637795026944990348*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C3000&sdata=gRfN5WuMr4*2BLwZMRqPOPaTJ97VoUB*2FVRMELwu5lQeiU*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJQ!!IKRxdwAv5BmarQ!IcLaVAupTYedSuWIPJGuIdRdOzEq4sib8fyufCCcC5bvaoUXwfrn-27dvH_NVZ8$" target="_blank"><span style="color:windowtext;text-decoration:none"> </span></a><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.proofpoint.com*2Fv2*2Furl*3Fu*3Dhttps-3A__www.avast.com_sig-2Demail-3Futm-5Fmedium-3Demail-26utm-5Fsource-3Dlink-26utm-5Fcampaign-3Dsig-2Demail-26utm-5Fcontent-3Dwebmail*26d*3DDwMFaQ*26c*3DslrrB7dE8n7gBJbeO0g-IQ*26r*3DwQR1NePCSj6dOGDD0r6B5Kn1fcNaTMg7tARe7TdEDqQ*26m*3DwaSKY67JF57IZXg30ysFB_R7OG9zoQwFwxyps6FbTa1Zh5mttxRot_t4N7mn68Pj*26s*3DAo9QQWtO62go0hx1tb3NU6xw2FNBadjj8q64-hl5Sx4*26e*3D&data=04*7C01*7Ctgd*40oregonstate.edu*7C3db6ca275cc748415eaa08d9e732a318*7Cce6d05e13c5e4d6287a84c4a2713c113*7C0*7C0*7C637795026944990348*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C3000&sdata=gRfN5WuMr4*2BLwZMRqPOPaTJ97VoUB*2FVRMELwu5lQeiU*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJQ!!IKRxdwAv5BmarQ!IcLaVAupTYedSuWIPJGuIdRdOzEq4sib8fyufCCcC5bvaoUXwfrn-27dvH_NVZ8$" target="_blank"><span style="color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">In
the last two decades or so you have insisted (for reasons you have never fully clarified, so far as I know) on abandoning symbol-manipulation, but the reverse is not the case: I have
<i>never</i> called for dismissal of neural networks, but rather for some hybrid between the two (as you yourself contemplated in 1991); the point of the 2001 book was to characterize exactly where multilayer perceptrons succeeded and broke down, and where
symbols could complement them. It’s a rhetorical trick (which is what the previous thread was about) to pretend otherwise.</span></a><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.proofpoint.com*2Fv2*2Furl*3Fu*3Dhttps-3A__www.avast.com_sig-2Demail-3Futm-5Fmedium-3Demail-26utm-5Fsource-3Dlink-26utm-5Fcampaign-3Dsig-2Demail-26utm-5Fcontent-3Dwebmail*26d*3DDwMFaQ*26c*3DslrrB7dE8n7gBJbeO0g-IQ*26r*3DwQR1NePCSj6dOGDD0r6B5Kn1fcNaTMg7tARe7TdEDqQ*26m*3DwaSKY67JF57IZXg30ysFB_R7OG9zoQwFwxyps6FbTa1Zh5mttxRot_t4N7mn68Pj*26s*3DAo9QQWtO62go0hx1tb3NU6xw2FNBadjj8q64-hl5Sx4*26e*3D&data=04*7C01*7Ctgd*40oregonstate.edu*7C3db6ca275cc748415eaa08d9e732a318*7Cce6d05e13c5e4d6287a84c4a2713c113*7C0*7C0*7C637795026944990348*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C3000&sdata=gRfN5WuMr4*2BLwZMRqPOPaTJ97VoUB*2FVRMELwu5lQeiU*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJQ!!IKRxdwAv5BmarQ!IcLaVAupTYedSuWIPJGuIdRdOzEq4sib8fyufCCcC5bvaoUXwfrn-27dvH_NVZ8$" target="_blank"><span style="color:windowtext;text-decoration:none"> </span></a><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.proofpoint.com*2Fv2*2Furl*3Fu*3Dhttps-3A__www.avast.com_sig-2Demail-3Futm-5Fmedium-3Demail-26utm-5Fsource-3Dlink-26utm-5Fcampaign-3Dsig-2Demail-26utm-5Fcontent-3Dwebmail*26d*3DDwMFaQ*26c*3DslrrB7dE8n7gBJbeO0g-IQ*26r*3DwQR1NePCSj6dOGDD0r6B5Kn1fcNaTMg7tARe7TdEDqQ*26m*3DwaSKY67JF57IZXg30ysFB_R7OG9zoQwFwxyps6FbTa1Zh5mttxRot_t4N7mn68Pj*26s*3DAo9QQWtO62go0hx1tb3NU6xw2FNBadjj8q64-hl5Sx4*26e*3D&data=04*7C01*7Ctgd*40oregonstate.edu*7C3db6ca275cc748415eaa08d9e732a318*7Cce6d05e13c5e4d6287a84c4a2713c113*7C0*7C0*7C637795026944990348*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C3000&sdata=gRfN5WuMr4*2BLwZMRqPOPaTJ97VoUB*2FVRMELwu5lQeiU*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJQ!!IKRxdwAv5BmarQ!IcLaVAupTYedSuWIPJGuIdRdOzEq4sib8fyufCCcC5bvaoUXwfrn-27dvH_NVZ8$" target="_blank"><span style="color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">Gary</span></a><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.proofpoint.com*2Fv2*2Furl*3Fu*3Dhttps-3A__www.avast.com_sig-2Demail-3Futm-5Fmedium-3Demail-26utm-5Fsource-3Dlink-26utm-5Fcampaign-3Dsig-2Demail-26utm-5Fcontent-3Dwebmail*26d*3DDwMFaQ*26c*3DslrrB7dE8n7gBJbeO0g-IQ*26r*3DwQR1NePCSj6dOGDD0r6B5Kn1fcNaTMg7tARe7TdEDqQ*26m*3DwaSKY67JF57IZXg30ysFB_R7OG9zoQwFwxyps6FbTa1Zh5mttxRot_t4N7mn68Pj*26s*3DAo9QQWtO62go0hx1tb3NU6xw2FNBadjj8q64-hl5Sx4*26e*3D&data=04*7C01*7Ctgd*40oregonstate.edu*7C3db6ca275cc748415eaa08d9e732a318*7Cce6d05e13c5e4d6287a84c4a2713c113*7C0*7C0*7C637795026944990348*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C3000&sdata=gRfN5WuMr4*2BLwZMRqPOPaTJ97VoUB*2FVRMELwu5lQeiU*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJQ!!IKRxdwAv5BmarQ!IcLaVAupTYedSuWIPJGuIdRdOzEq4sib8fyufCCcC5bvaoUXwfrn-27dvH_NVZ8$" target="_blank"><span style="color:windowtext;text-decoration:none"> </span></a><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.proofpoint.com*2Fv2*2Furl*3Fu*3Dhttps-3A__www.avast.com_sig-2Demail-3Futm-5Fmedium-3Demail-26utm-5Fsource-3Dlink-26utm-5Fcampaign-3Dsig-2Demail-26utm-5Fcontent-3Dwebmail*26d*3DDwMFaQ*26c*3DslrrB7dE8n7gBJbeO0g-IQ*26r*3DwQR1NePCSj6dOGDD0r6B5Kn1fcNaTMg7tARe7TdEDqQ*26m*3DwaSKY67JF57IZXg30ysFB_R7OG9zoQwFwxyps6FbTa1Zh5mttxRot_t4N7mn68Pj*26s*3DAo9QQWtO62go0hx1tb3NU6xw2FNBadjj8q64-hl5Sx4*26e*3D&data=04*7C01*7Ctgd*40oregonstate.edu*7C3db6ca275cc748415eaa08d9e732a318*7Cce6d05e13c5e4d6287a84c4a2713c113*7C0*7C0*7C637795026944990348*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C3000&sdata=gRfN5WuMr4*2BLwZMRqPOPaTJ97VoUB*2FVRMELwu5lQeiU*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJQ!!IKRxdwAv5BmarQ!IcLaVAupTYedSuWIPJGuIdRdOzEq4sib8fyufCCcC5bvaoUXwfrn-27dvH_NVZ8$" target="_blank"><span style="color:windowtext;text-decoration:none"> </span></a><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5pt;margin-bottom:5pt">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt"><a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.proofpoint.com*2Fv2*2Furl*3Fu*3Dhttps-3A__www.avast.com_sig-2Demail-3Futm-5Fmedium-3Demail-26utm-5Fsource-3Dlink-26utm-5Fcampaign-3Dsig-2Demail-26utm-5Fcontent-3Dwebmail*26d*3DDwMFaQ*26c*3DslrrB7dE8n7gBJbeO0g-IQ*26r*3DwQR1NePCSj6dOGDD0r6B5Kn1fcNaTMg7tARe7TdEDqQ*26m*3DwaSKY67JF57IZXg30ysFB_R7OG9zoQwFwxyps6FbTa1Zh5mttxRot_t4N7mn68Pj*26s*3DAo9QQWtO62go0hx1tb3NU6xw2FNBadjj8q64-hl5Sx4*26e*3D&data=04*7C01*7Ctgd*40oregonstate.edu*7C3db6ca275cc748415eaa08d9e732a318*7Cce6d05e13c5e4d6287a84c4a2713c113*7C0*7C0*7C637795026944990348*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C3000&sdata=gRfN5WuMr4*2BLwZMRqPOPaTJ97VoUB*2FVRMELwu5lQeiU*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJQ!!IKRxdwAv5BmarQ!IcLaVAupTYedSuWIPJGuIdRdOzEq4sib8fyufCCcC5bvaoUXwfrn-27dvH_NVZ8$" target="_blank"><span style="color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">On
Feb 2, 2022, at 11:22, Geoffrey Hinton <</span>geoffrey.hinton@gmail.com<span style="color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">> wrote:</span></a><u></u><u></u></p>
</blockquote>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5pt;margin-bottom:5pt">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.proofpoint.com*2Fv2*2Furl*3Fu*3Dhttps-3A__www.avast.com_sig-2Demail-3Futm-5Fmedium-3Demail-26utm-5Fsource-3Dlink-26utm-5Fcampaign-3Dsig-2Demail-26utm-5Fcontent-3Dwebmail*26d*3DDwMFaQ*26c*3DslrrB7dE8n7gBJbeO0g-IQ*26r*3DwQR1NePCSj6dOGDD0r6B5Kn1fcNaTMg7tARe7TdEDqQ*26m*3DwaSKY67JF57IZXg30ysFB_R7OG9zoQwFwxyps6FbTa1Zh5mttxRot_t4N7mn68Pj*26s*3DAo9QQWtO62go0hx1tb3NU6xw2FNBadjj8q64-hl5Sx4*26e*3D&data=04*7C01*7Ctgd*40oregonstate.edu*7C3db6ca275cc748415eaa08d9e732a318*7Cce6d05e13c5e4d6287a84c4a2713c113*7C0*7C0*7C637795026944990348*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C3000&sdata=gRfN5WuMr4*2BLwZMRqPOPaTJ97VoUB*2FVRMELwu5lQeiU*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJQ!!IKRxdwAv5BmarQ!IcLaVAupTYedSuWIPJGuIdRdOzEq4sib8fyufCCcC5bvaoUXwfrn-27dvH_NVZ8$" target="_blank"><span style="color:windowtext;text-decoration:none"></span></a><u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.proofpoint.com*2Fv2*2Furl*3Fu*3Dhttps-3A__www.avast.com_sig-2Demail-3Futm-5Fmedium-3Demail-26utm-5Fsource-3Dlink-26utm-5Fcampaign-3Dsig-2Demail-26utm-5Fcontent-3Dwebmail*26d*3DDwMFaQ*26c*3DslrrB7dE8n7gBJbeO0g-IQ*26r*3DwQR1NePCSj6dOGDD0r6B5Kn1fcNaTMg7tARe7TdEDqQ*26m*3DwaSKY67JF57IZXg30ysFB_R7OG9zoQwFwxyps6FbTa1Zh5mttxRot_t4N7mn68Pj*26s*3DAo9QQWtO62go0hx1tb3NU6xw2FNBadjj8q64-hl5Sx4*26e*3D&data=04*7C01*7Ctgd*40oregonstate.edu*7C3db6ca275cc748415eaa08d9e732a318*7Cce6d05e13c5e4d6287a84c4a2713c113*7C0*7C0*7C637795026944990348*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C3000&sdata=gRfN5WuMr4*2BLwZMRqPOPaTJ97VoUB*2FVRMELwu5lQeiU*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJQ!!IKRxdwAv5BmarQ!IcLaVAupTYedSuWIPJGuIdRdOzEq4sib8fyufCCcC5bvaoUXwfrn-27dvH_NVZ8$" target="_blank"><span style="color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">Embeddings
are just vectors of soft feature detectors and they are very good for NLP. The quote on my webpage from Gary's 2015 chapter implies the opposite.</span></a><u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.proofpoint.com*2Fv2*2Furl*3Fu*3Dhttps-3A__www.avast.com_sig-2Demail-3Futm-5Fmedium-3Demail-26utm-5Fsource-3Dlink-26utm-5Fcampaign-3Dsig-2Demail-26utm-5Fcontent-3Dwebmail*26d*3DDwMFaQ*26c*3DslrrB7dE8n7gBJbeO0g-IQ*26r*3DwQR1NePCSj6dOGDD0r6B5Kn1fcNaTMg7tARe7TdEDqQ*26m*3DwaSKY67JF57IZXg30ysFB_R7OG9zoQwFwxyps6FbTa1Zh5mttxRot_t4N7mn68Pj*26s*3DAo9QQWtO62go0hx1tb3NU6xw2FNBadjj8q64-hl5Sx4*26e*3D&data=04*7C01*7Ctgd*40oregonstate.edu*7C3db6ca275cc748415eaa08d9e732a318*7Cce6d05e13c5e4d6287a84c4a2713c113*7C0*7C0*7C637795026944990348*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C3000&sdata=gRfN5WuMr4*2BLwZMRqPOPaTJ97VoUB*2FVRMELwu5lQeiU*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJQ!!IKRxdwAv5BmarQ!IcLaVAupTYedSuWIPJGuIdRdOzEq4sib8fyufCCcC5bvaoUXwfrn-27dvH_NVZ8$" target="_blank"><span style="color:windowtext;text-decoration:none"> </span></a><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.proofpoint.com*2Fv2*2Furl*3Fu*3Dhttps-3A__www.avast.com_sig-2Demail-3Futm-5Fmedium-3Demail-26utm-5Fsource-3Dlink-26utm-5Fcampaign-3Dsig-2Demail-26utm-5Fcontent-3Dwebmail*26d*3DDwMFaQ*26c*3DslrrB7dE8n7gBJbeO0g-IQ*26r*3DwQR1NePCSj6dOGDD0r6B5Kn1fcNaTMg7tARe7TdEDqQ*26m*3DwaSKY67JF57IZXg30ysFB_R7OG9zoQwFwxyps6FbTa1Zh5mttxRot_t4N7mn68Pj*26s*3DAo9QQWtO62go0hx1tb3NU6xw2FNBadjj8q64-hl5Sx4*26e*3D&data=04*7C01*7Ctgd*40oregonstate.edu*7C3db6ca275cc748415eaa08d9e732a318*7Cce6d05e13c5e4d6287a84c4a2713c113*7C0*7C0*7C637795026944990348*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C3000&sdata=gRfN5WuMr4*2BLwZMRqPOPaTJ97VoUB*2FVRMELwu5lQeiU*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJQ!!IKRxdwAv5BmarQ!IcLaVAupTYedSuWIPJGuIdRdOzEq4sib8fyufCCcC5bvaoUXwfrn-27dvH_NVZ8$" target="_blank"><span style="color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">A
few decades ago, everyone I knew then would have agreed that the ability to translate a sentence into many different languages was strong evidence that you understood it.</span></a><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt"><a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.proofpoint.com*2Fv2*2Furl*3Fu*3Dhttps-3A__www.avast.com_sig-2Demail-3Futm-5Fmedium-3Demail-26utm-5Fsource-3Dlink-26utm-5Fcampaign-3Dsig-2Demail-26utm-5Fcontent-3Dwebmail*26d*3DDwMFaQ*26c*3DslrrB7dE8n7gBJbeO0g-IQ*26r*3DwQR1NePCSj6dOGDD0r6B5Kn1fcNaTMg7tARe7TdEDqQ*26m*3DwaSKY67JF57IZXg30ysFB_R7OG9zoQwFwxyps6FbTa1Zh5mttxRot_t4N7mn68Pj*26s*3DAo9QQWtO62go0hx1tb3NU6xw2FNBadjj8q64-hl5Sx4*26e*3D&data=04*7C01*7Ctgd*40oregonstate.edu*7C3db6ca275cc748415eaa08d9e732a318*7Cce6d05e13c5e4d6287a84c4a2713c113*7C0*7C0*7C637795026944990348*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C3000&sdata=gRfN5WuMr4*2BLwZMRqPOPaTJ97VoUB*2FVRMELwu5lQeiU*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJQ!!IKRxdwAv5BmarQ!IcLaVAupTYedSuWIPJGuIdRdOzEq4sib8fyufCCcC5bvaoUXwfrn-27dvH_NVZ8$" target="_blank"><span style="color:windowtext;text-decoration:none"> </span></a><u></u><u></u></p>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5pt;margin-bottom:5pt">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.proofpoint.com*2Fv2*2Furl*3Fu*3Dhttps-3A__www.avast.com_sig-2Demail-3Futm-5Fmedium-3Demail-26utm-5Fsource-3Dlink-26utm-5Fcampaign-3Dsig-2Demail-26utm-5Fcontent-3Dwebmail*26d*3DDwMFaQ*26c*3DslrrB7dE8n7gBJbeO0g-IQ*26r*3DwQR1NePCSj6dOGDD0r6B5Kn1fcNaTMg7tARe7TdEDqQ*26m*3DwaSKY67JF57IZXg30ysFB_R7OG9zoQwFwxyps6FbTa1Zh5mttxRot_t4N7mn68Pj*26s*3DAo9QQWtO62go0hx1tb3NU6xw2FNBadjj8q64-hl5Sx4*26e*3D&data=04*7C01*7Ctgd*40oregonstate.edu*7C3db6ca275cc748415eaa08d9e732a318*7Cce6d05e13c5e4d6287a84c4a2713c113*7C0*7C0*7C637795026944990348*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C3000&sdata=gRfN5WuMr4*2BLwZMRqPOPaTJ97VoUB*2FVRMELwu5lQeiU*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJQ!!IKRxdwAv5BmarQ!IcLaVAupTYedSuWIPJGuIdRdOzEq4sib8fyufCCcC5bvaoUXwfrn-27dvH_NVZ8$" target="_blank"><span style="color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">But
once neural networks could do that, their critics moved the goalposts. An exception is Hector Levesque who defined the goalposts more sharply by saying that the ability to get pronoun references correct in Winograd sentences is a crucial test. Neural nets
are improving at that but still have some way to go. Will Gary agree that when they can get pronoun references correct in Winograd sentences they really do understand? Or does he want to reserve the right to weasel out of that too?</span></a><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.proofpoint.com*2Fv2*2Furl*3Fu*3Dhttps-3A__www.avast.com_sig-2Demail-3Futm-5Fmedium-3Demail-26utm-5Fsource-3Dlink-26utm-5Fcampaign-3Dsig-2Demail-26utm-5Fcontent-3Dwebmail*26d*3DDwMFaQ*26c*3DslrrB7dE8n7gBJbeO0g-IQ*26r*3DwQR1NePCSj6dOGDD0r6B5Kn1fcNaTMg7tARe7TdEDqQ*26m*3DwaSKY67JF57IZXg30ysFB_R7OG9zoQwFwxyps6FbTa1Zh5mttxRot_t4N7mn68Pj*26s*3DAo9QQWtO62go0hx1tb3NU6xw2FNBadjj8q64-hl5Sx4*26e*3D&data=04*7C01*7Ctgd*40oregonstate.edu*7C3db6ca275cc748415eaa08d9e732a318*7Cce6d05e13c5e4d6287a84c4a2713c113*7C0*7C0*7C637795026944990348*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C3000&sdata=gRfN5WuMr4*2BLwZMRqPOPaTJ97VoUB*2FVRMELwu5lQeiU*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJQ!!IKRxdwAv5BmarQ!IcLaVAupTYedSuWIPJGuIdRdOzEq4sib8fyufCCcC5bvaoUXwfrn-27dvH_NVZ8$" target="_blank"><span style="color:windowtext;text-decoration:none"> </span></a><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.proofpoint.com*2Fv2*2Furl*3Fu*3Dhttps-3A__www.avast.com_sig-2Demail-3Futm-5Fmedium-3Demail-26utm-5Fsource-3Dlink-26utm-5Fcampaign-3Dsig-2Demail-26utm-5Fcontent-3Dwebmail*26d*3DDwMFaQ*26c*3DslrrB7dE8n7gBJbeO0g-IQ*26r*3DwQR1NePCSj6dOGDD0r6B5Kn1fcNaTMg7tARe7TdEDqQ*26m*3DwaSKY67JF57IZXg30ysFB_R7OG9zoQwFwxyps6FbTa1Zh5mttxRot_t4N7mn68Pj*26s*3DAo9QQWtO62go0hx1tb3NU6xw2FNBadjj8q64-hl5Sx4*26e*3D&data=04*7C01*7Ctgd*40oregonstate.edu*7C3db6ca275cc748415eaa08d9e732a318*7Cce6d05e13c5e4d6287a84c4a2713c113*7C0*7C0*7C637795026944990348*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C3000&sdata=gRfN5WuMr4*2BLwZMRqPOPaTJ97VoUB*2FVRMELwu5lQeiU*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJQ!!IKRxdwAv5BmarQ!IcLaVAupTYedSuWIPJGuIdRdOzEq4sib8fyufCCcC5bvaoUXwfrn-27dvH_NVZ8$" target="_blank"><span style="color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">Some
people, like Gary, appear to be strongly opposed to neural networks because they do not fit their preconceived notions of how the mind should work.</span></a><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.proofpoint.com*2Fv2*2Furl*3Fu*3Dhttps-3A__www.avast.com_sig-2Demail-3Futm-5Fmedium-3Demail-26utm-5Fsource-3Dlink-26utm-5Fcampaign-3Dsig-2Demail-26utm-5Fcontent-3Dwebmail*26d*3DDwMFaQ*26c*3DslrrB7dE8n7gBJbeO0g-IQ*26r*3DwQR1NePCSj6dOGDD0r6B5Kn1fcNaTMg7tARe7TdEDqQ*26m*3DwaSKY67JF57IZXg30ysFB_R7OG9zoQwFwxyps6FbTa1Zh5mttxRot_t4N7mn68Pj*26s*3DAo9QQWtO62go0hx1tb3NU6xw2FNBadjj8q64-hl5Sx4*26e*3D&data=04*7C01*7Ctgd*40oregonstate.edu*7C3db6ca275cc748415eaa08d9e732a318*7Cce6d05e13c5e4d6287a84c4a2713c113*7C0*7C0*7C637795026944990348*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C3000&sdata=gRfN5WuMr4*2BLwZMRqPOPaTJ97VoUB*2FVRMELwu5lQeiU*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJQ!!IKRxdwAv5BmarQ!IcLaVAupTYedSuWIPJGuIdRdOzEq4sib8fyufCCcC5bvaoUXwfrn-27dvH_NVZ8$" target="_blank"><span style="color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">I
believe that any reasonable person would admit that if you ask a neural net to draw a picture of a hamster wearing a red hat and it draws such a picture, it understood the request.</span></a><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.proofpoint.com*2Fv2*2Furl*3Fu*3Dhttps-3A__www.avast.com_sig-2Demail-3Futm-5Fmedium-3Demail-26utm-5Fsource-3Dlink-26utm-5Fcampaign-3Dsig-2Demail-26utm-5Fcontent-3Dwebmail*26d*3DDwMFaQ*26c*3DslrrB7dE8n7gBJbeO0g-IQ*26r*3DwQR1NePCSj6dOGDD0r6B5Kn1fcNaTMg7tARe7TdEDqQ*26m*3DwaSKY67JF57IZXg30ysFB_R7OG9zoQwFwxyps6FbTa1Zh5mttxRot_t4N7mn68Pj*26s*3DAo9QQWtO62go0hx1tb3NU6xw2FNBadjj8q64-hl5Sx4*26e*3D&data=04*7C01*7Ctgd*40oregonstate.edu*7C3db6ca275cc748415eaa08d9e732a318*7Cce6d05e13c5e4d6287a84c4a2713c113*7C0*7C0*7C637795026944990348*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C3000&sdata=gRfN5WuMr4*2BLwZMRqPOPaTJ97VoUB*2FVRMELwu5lQeiU*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJQ!!IKRxdwAv5BmarQ!IcLaVAupTYedSuWIPJGuIdRdOzEq4sib8fyufCCcC5bvaoUXwfrn-27dvH_NVZ8$" target="_blank"><span style="color:windowtext;text-decoration:none"> </span></a><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.proofpoint.com*2Fv2*2Furl*3Fu*3Dhttps-3A__www.avast.com_sig-2Demail-3Futm-5Fmedium-3Demail-26utm-5Fsource-3Dlink-26utm-5Fcampaign-3Dsig-2Demail-26utm-5Fcontent-3Dwebmail*26d*3DDwMFaQ*26c*3DslrrB7dE8n7gBJbeO0g-IQ*26r*3DwQR1NePCSj6dOGDD0r6B5Kn1fcNaTMg7tARe7TdEDqQ*26m*3DwaSKY67JF57IZXg30ysFB_R7OG9zoQwFwxyps6FbTa1Zh5mttxRot_t4N7mn68Pj*26s*3DAo9QQWtO62go0hx1tb3NU6xw2FNBadjj8q64-hl5Sx4*26e*3D&data=04*7C01*7Ctgd*40oregonstate.edu*7C3db6ca275cc748415eaa08d9e732a318*7Cce6d05e13c5e4d6287a84c4a2713c113*7C0*7C0*7C637795026944990348*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C3000&sdata=gRfN5WuMr4*2BLwZMRqPOPaTJ97VoUB*2FVRMELwu5lQeiU*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJQ!!IKRxdwAv5BmarQ!IcLaVAupTYedSuWIPJGuIdRdOzEq4sib8fyufCCcC5bvaoUXwfrn-27dvH_NVZ8$" target="_blank"><span style="color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">Geoff</span></a><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.proofpoint.com*2Fv2*2Furl*3Fu*3Dhttps-3A__www.avast.com_sig-2Demail-3Futm-5Fmedium-3Demail-26utm-5Fsource-3Dlink-26utm-5Fcampaign-3Dsig-2Demail-26utm-5Fcontent-3Dwebmail*26d*3DDwMFaQ*26c*3DslrrB7dE8n7gBJbeO0g-IQ*26r*3DwQR1NePCSj6dOGDD0r6B5Kn1fcNaTMg7tARe7TdEDqQ*26m*3DwaSKY67JF57IZXg30ysFB_R7OG9zoQwFwxyps6FbTa1Zh5mttxRot_t4N7mn68Pj*26s*3DAo9QQWtO62go0hx1tb3NU6xw2FNBadjj8q64-hl5Sx4*26e*3D&data=04*7C01*7Ctgd*40oregonstate.edu*7C3db6ca275cc748415eaa08d9e732a318*7Cce6d05e13c5e4d6287a84c4a2713c113*7C0*7C0*7C637795026944990348*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C3000&sdata=gRfN5WuMr4*2BLwZMRqPOPaTJ97VoUB*2FVRMELwu5lQeiU*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJQ!!IKRxdwAv5BmarQ!IcLaVAupTYedSuWIPJGuIdRdOzEq4sib8fyufCCcC5bvaoUXwfrn-27dvH_NVZ8$" target="_blank"><span style="color:windowtext;text-decoration:none"> </span></a><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.proofpoint.com*2Fv2*2Furl*3Fu*3Dhttps-3A__www.avast.com_sig-2Demail-3Futm-5Fmedium-3Demail-26utm-5Fsource-3Dlink-26utm-5Fcampaign-3Dsig-2Demail-26utm-5Fcontent-3Dwebmail*26d*3DDwMFaQ*26c*3DslrrB7dE8n7gBJbeO0g-IQ*26r*3DwQR1NePCSj6dOGDD0r6B5Kn1fcNaTMg7tARe7TdEDqQ*26m*3DwaSKY67JF57IZXg30ysFB_R7OG9zoQwFwxyps6FbTa1Zh5mttxRot_t4N7mn68Pj*26s*3DAo9QQWtO62go0hx1tb3NU6xw2FNBadjj8q64-hl5Sx4*26e*3D&data=04*7C01*7Ctgd*40oregonstate.edu*7C3db6ca275cc748415eaa08d9e732a318*7Cce6d05e13c5e4d6287a84c4a2713c113*7C0*7C0*7C637795026944990348*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C3000&sdata=gRfN5WuMr4*2BLwZMRqPOPaTJ97VoUB*2FVRMELwu5lQeiU*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJQ!!IKRxdwAv5BmarQ!IcLaVAupTYedSuWIPJGuIdRdOzEq4sib8fyufCCcC5bvaoUXwfrn-27dvH_NVZ8$" target="_blank"><span style="color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">On
Wed, Feb 2, 2022 at 1:38 PM Gary Marcus <</span>gary.marcus@nyu.edu<span style="color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">> wrote:</span></a><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:13pt;font-family:UICTFontTextStyleBody,serif"><a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.proofpoint.com*2Fv2*2Furl*3Fu*3Dhttps-3A__www.avast.com_sig-2Demail-3Futm-5Fmedium-3Demail-26utm-5Fsource-3Dlink-26utm-5Fcampaign-3Dsig-2Demail-26utm-5Fcontent-3Dwebmail*26d*3DDwMFaQ*26c*3DslrrB7dE8n7gBJbeO0g-IQ*26r*3DwQR1NePCSj6dOGDD0r6B5Kn1fcNaTMg7tARe7TdEDqQ*26m*3DwaSKY67JF57IZXg30ysFB_R7OG9zoQwFwxyps6FbTa1Zh5mttxRot_t4N7mn68Pj*26s*3DAo9QQWtO62go0hx1tb3NU6xw2FNBadjj8q64-hl5Sx4*26e*3D&data=04*7C01*7Ctgd*40oregonstate.edu*7C3db6ca275cc748415eaa08d9e732a318*7Cce6d05e13c5e4d6287a84c4a2713c113*7C0*7C0*7C637795026944990348*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C3000&sdata=gRfN5WuMr4*2BLwZMRqPOPaTJ97VoUB*2FVRMELwu5lQeiU*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJQ!!IKRxdwAv5BmarQ!IcLaVAupTYedSuWIPJGuIdRdOzEq4sib8fyufCCcC5bvaoUXwfrn-27dvH_NVZ8$" target="_blank"><span style="color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">Dear
AI Hub, cc: Steven Hanson and Geoffrey Hinton, and the larger neural network community,</span></a></span><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:13pt"><a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.proofpoint.com*2Fv2*2Furl*3Fu*3Dhttps-3A__www.avast.com_sig-2Demail-3Futm-5Fmedium-3Demail-26utm-5Fsource-3Dlink-26utm-5Fcampaign-3Dsig-2Demail-26utm-5Fcontent-3Dwebmail*26d*3DDwMFaQ*26c*3DslrrB7dE8n7gBJbeO0g-IQ*26r*3DwQR1NePCSj6dOGDD0r6B5Kn1fcNaTMg7tARe7TdEDqQ*26m*3DwaSKY67JF57IZXg30ysFB_R7OG9zoQwFwxyps6FbTa1Zh5mttxRot_t4N7mn68Pj*26s*3DAo9QQWtO62go0hx1tb3NU6xw2FNBadjj8q64-hl5Sx4*26e*3D&data=04*7C01*7Ctgd*40oregonstate.edu*7C3db6ca275cc748415eaa08d9e732a318*7Cce6d05e13c5e4d6287a84c4a2713c113*7C0*7C0*7C637795026944990348*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C3000&sdata=gRfN5WuMr4*2BLwZMRqPOPaTJ97VoUB*2FVRMELwu5lQeiU*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJQ!!IKRxdwAv5BmarQ!IcLaVAupTYedSuWIPJGuIdRdOzEq4sib8fyufCCcC5bvaoUXwfrn-27dvH_NVZ8$" target="_blank"><span style="color:windowtext;text-decoration:none"> </span></a></span><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:13pt;font-family:UICTFontTextStyleBody,serif"><a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.proofpoint.com*2Fv2*2Furl*3Fu*3Dhttps-3A__www.avast.com_sig-2Demail-3Futm-5Fmedium-3Demail-26utm-5Fsource-3Dlink-26utm-5Fcampaign-3Dsig-2Demail-26utm-5Fcontent-3Dwebmail*26d*3DDwMFaQ*26c*3DslrrB7dE8n7gBJbeO0g-IQ*26r*3DwQR1NePCSj6dOGDD0r6B5Kn1fcNaTMg7tARe7TdEDqQ*26m*3DwaSKY67JF57IZXg30ysFB_R7OG9zoQwFwxyps6FbTa1Zh5mttxRot_t4N7mn68Pj*26s*3DAo9QQWtO62go0hx1tb3NU6xw2FNBadjj8q64-hl5Sx4*26e*3D&data=04*7C01*7Ctgd*40oregonstate.edu*7C3db6ca275cc748415eaa08d9e732a318*7Cce6d05e13c5e4d6287a84c4a2713c113*7C0*7C0*7C637795026944990348*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C3000&sdata=gRfN5WuMr4*2BLwZMRqPOPaTJ97VoUB*2FVRMELwu5lQeiU*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJQ!!IKRxdwAv5BmarQ!IcLaVAupTYedSuWIPJGuIdRdOzEq4sib8fyufCCcC5bvaoUXwfrn-27dvH_NVZ8$" target="_blank"><span style="color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">There
has been a lot of recent discussion on this list about framing and scientific integrity. Often the first step in restructuring narratives is to bully and dehumanize critics. The second is to misrepresent their position. People in positions of power are sometimes
tempted to do this.</span></a></span><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:13pt"><a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.proofpoint.com*2Fv2*2Furl*3Fu*3Dhttps-3A__www.avast.com_sig-2Demail-3Futm-5Fmedium-3Demail-26utm-5Fsource-3Dlink-26utm-5Fcampaign-3Dsig-2Demail-26utm-5Fcontent-3Dwebmail*26d*3DDwMFaQ*26c*3DslrrB7dE8n7gBJbeO0g-IQ*26r*3DwQR1NePCSj6dOGDD0r6B5Kn1fcNaTMg7tARe7TdEDqQ*26m*3DwaSKY67JF57IZXg30ysFB_R7OG9zoQwFwxyps6FbTa1Zh5mttxRot_t4N7mn68Pj*26s*3DAo9QQWtO62go0hx1tb3NU6xw2FNBadjj8q64-hl5Sx4*26e*3D&data=04*7C01*7Ctgd*40oregonstate.edu*7C3db6ca275cc748415eaa08d9e732a318*7Cce6d05e13c5e4d6287a84c4a2713c113*7C0*7C0*7C637795026944990348*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C3000&sdata=gRfN5WuMr4*2BLwZMRqPOPaTJ97VoUB*2FVRMELwu5lQeiU*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJQ!!IKRxdwAv5BmarQ!IcLaVAupTYedSuWIPJGuIdRdOzEq4sib8fyufCCcC5bvaoUXwfrn-27dvH_NVZ8$" target="_blank"><span style="color:windowtext;text-decoration:none"> </span></a></span><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:13pt;font-family:UICTFontTextStyleBody,serif"><a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.proofpoint.com*2Fv2*2Furl*3Fu*3Dhttps-3A__www.avast.com_sig-2Demail-3Futm-5Fmedium-3Demail-26utm-5Fsource-3Dlink-26utm-5Fcampaign-3Dsig-2Demail-26utm-5Fcontent-3Dwebmail*26d*3DDwMFaQ*26c*3DslrrB7dE8n7gBJbeO0g-IQ*26r*3DwQR1NePCSj6dOGDD0r6B5Kn1fcNaTMg7tARe7TdEDqQ*26m*3DwaSKY67JF57IZXg30ysFB_R7OG9zoQwFwxyps6FbTa1Zh5mttxRot_t4N7mn68Pj*26s*3DAo9QQWtO62go0hx1tb3NU6xw2FNBadjj8q64-hl5Sx4*26e*3D&data=04*7C01*7Ctgd*40oregonstate.edu*7C3db6ca275cc748415eaa08d9e732a318*7Cce6d05e13c5e4d6287a84c4a2713c113*7C0*7C0*7C637795026944990348*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C3000&sdata=gRfN5WuMr4*2BLwZMRqPOPaTJ97VoUB*2FVRMELwu5lQeiU*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJQ!!IKRxdwAv5BmarQ!IcLaVAupTYedSuWIPJGuIdRdOzEq4sib8fyufCCcC5bvaoUXwfrn-27dvH_NVZ8$" target="_blank"><span style="color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">The
Hinton-Hanson interview that you just published is a real-time example of just that. It opens with a needless and largely content-free personal attack on a single scholar (me), with the explicit intention of discrediting that person. Worse, the only substantive
thing it says is false.</span></a></span><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:13pt"><a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.proofpoint.com*2Fv2*2Furl*3Fu*3Dhttps-3A__www.avast.com_sig-2Demail-3Futm-5Fmedium-3Demail-26utm-5Fsource-3Dlink-26utm-5Fcampaign-3Dsig-2Demail-26utm-5Fcontent-3Dwebmail*26d*3DDwMFaQ*26c*3DslrrB7dE8n7gBJbeO0g-IQ*26r*3DwQR1NePCSj6dOGDD0r6B5Kn1fcNaTMg7tARe7TdEDqQ*26m*3DwaSKY67JF57IZXg30ysFB_R7OG9zoQwFwxyps6FbTa1Zh5mttxRot_t4N7mn68Pj*26s*3DAo9QQWtO62go0hx1tb3NU6xw2FNBadjj8q64-hl5Sx4*26e*3D&data=04*7C01*7Ctgd*40oregonstate.edu*7C3db6ca275cc748415eaa08d9e732a318*7Cce6d05e13c5e4d6287a84c4a2713c113*7C0*7C0*7C637795026944990348*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C3000&sdata=gRfN5WuMr4*2BLwZMRqPOPaTJ97VoUB*2FVRMELwu5lQeiU*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJQ!!IKRxdwAv5BmarQ!IcLaVAupTYedSuWIPJGuIdRdOzEq4sib8fyufCCcC5bvaoUXwfrn-27dvH_NVZ8$" target="_blank"><span style="color:windowtext;text-decoration:none"> </span></a></span><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:13pt;font-family:UICTFontTextStyleBody,serif"><a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.proofpoint.com*2Fv2*2Furl*3Fu*3Dhttps-3A__www.avast.com_sig-2Demail-3Futm-5Fmedium-3Demail-26utm-5Fsource-3Dlink-26utm-5Fcampaign-3Dsig-2Demail-26utm-5Fcontent-3Dwebmail*26d*3DDwMFaQ*26c*3DslrrB7dE8n7gBJbeO0g-IQ*26r*3DwQR1NePCSj6dOGDD0r6B5Kn1fcNaTMg7tARe7TdEDqQ*26m*3DwaSKY67JF57IZXg30ysFB_R7OG9zoQwFwxyps6FbTa1Zh5mttxRot_t4N7mn68Pj*26s*3DAo9QQWtO62go0hx1tb3NU6xw2FNBadjj8q64-hl5Sx4*26e*3D&data=04*7C01*7Ctgd*40oregonstate.edu*7C3db6ca275cc748415eaa08d9e732a318*7Cce6d05e13c5e4d6287a84c4a2713c113*7C0*7C0*7C637795026944990348*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C3000&sdata=gRfN5WuMr4*2BLwZMRqPOPaTJ97VoUB*2FVRMELwu5lQeiU*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJQ!!IKRxdwAv5BmarQ!IcLaVAupTYedSuWIPJGuIdRdOzEq4sib8fyufCCcC5bvaoUXwfrn-27dvH_NVZ8$" target="_blank"><span style="color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">Hinton
says “In 2015 he [Marcus] made a prediction that computers wouldn’t be able to do machine translation.”</span></a></span><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:13pt"><a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.proofpoint.com*2Fv2*2Furl*3Fu*3Dhttps-3A__www.avast.com_sig-2Demail-3Futm-5Fmedium-3Demail-26utm-5Fsource-3Dlink-26utm-5Fcampaign-3Dsig-2Demail-26utm-5Fcontent-3Dwebmail*26d*3DDwMFaQ*26c*3DslrrB7dE8n7gBJbeO0g-IQ*26r*3DwQR1NePCSj6dOGDD0r6B5Kn1fcNaTMg7tARe7TdEDqQ*26m*3DwaSKY67JF57IZXg30ysFB_R7OG9zoQwFwxyps6FbTa1Zh5mttxRot_t4N7mn68Pj*26s*3DAo9QQWtO62go0hx1tb3NU6xw2FNBadjj8q64-hl5Sx4*26e*3D&data=04*7C01*7Ctgd*40oregonstate.edu*7C3db6ca275cc748415eaa08d9e732a318*7Cce6d05e13c5e4d6287a84c4a2713c113*7C0*7C0*7C637795026944990348*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C3000&sdata=gRfN5WuMr4*2BLwZMRqPOPaTJ97VoUB*2FVRMELwu5lQeiU*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJQ!!IKRxdwAv5BmarQ!IcLaVAupTYedSuWIPJGuIdRdOzEq4sib8fyufCCcC5bvaoUXwfrn-27dvH_NVZ8$" target="_blank"><span style="color:windowtext;text-decoration:none"> </span></a></span><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:13pt;font-family:UICTFontTextStyleBody,serif"><a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.proofpoint.com*2Fv2*2Furl*3Fu*3Dhttps-3A__www.avast.com_sig-2Demail-3Futm-5Fmedium-3Demail-26utm-5Fsource-3Dlink-26utm-5Fcampaign-3Dsig-2Demail-26utm-5Fcontent-3Dwebmail*26d*3DDwMFaQ*26c*3DslrrB7dE8n7gBJbeO0g-IQ*26r*3DwQR1NePCSj6dOGDD0r6B5Kn1fcNaTMg7tARe7TdEDqQ*26m*3DwaSKY67JF57IZXg30ysFB_R7OG9zoQwFwxyps6FbTa1Zh5mttxRot_t4N7mn68Pj*26s*3DAo9QQWtO62go0hx1tb3NU6xw2FNBadjj8q64-hl5Sx4*26e*3D&data=04*7C01*7Ctgd*40oregonstate.edu*7C3db6ca275cc748415eaa08d9e732a318*7Cce6d05e13c5e4d6287a84c4a2713c113*7C0*7C0*7C637795026944990348*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C3000&sdata=gRfN5WuMr4*2BLwZMRqPOPaTJ97VoUB*2FVRMELwu5lQeiU*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJQ!!IKRxdwAv5BmarQ!IcLaVAupTYedSuWIPJGuIdRdOzEq4sib8fyufCCcC5bvaoUXwfrn-27dvH_NVZ8$" target="_blank"><span style="color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">I
never said any such thing. </span></a></span><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:13pt"><a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.proofpoint.com*2Fv2*2Furl*3Fu*3Dhttps-3A__www.avast.com_sig-2Demail-3Futm-5Fmedium-3Demail-26utm-5Fsource-3Dlink-26utm-5Fcampaign-3Dsig-2Demail-26utm-5Fcontent-3Dwebmail*26d*3DDwMFaQ*26c*3DslrrB7dE8n7gBJbeO0g-IQ*26r*3DwQR1NePCSj6dOGDD0r6B5Kn1fcNaTMg7tARe7TdEDqQ*26m*3DwaSKY67JF57IZXg30ysFB_R7OG9zoQwFwxyps6FbTa1Zh5mttxRot_t4N7mn68Pj*26s*3DAo9QQWtO62go0hx1tb3NU6xw2FNBadjj8q64-hl5Sx4*26e*3D&data=04*7C01*7Ctgd*40oregonstate.edu*7C3db6ca275cc748415eaa08d9e732a318*7Cce6d05e13c5e4d6287a84c4a2713c113*7C0*7C0*7C637795026944990348*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C3000&sdata=gRfN5WuMr4*2BLwZMRqPOPaTJ97VoUB*2FVRMELwu5lQeiU*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJQ!!IKRxdwAv5BmarQ!IcLaVAupTYedSuWIPJGuIdRdOzEq4sib8fyufCCcC5bvaoUXwfrn-27dvH_NVZ8$" target="_blank"><span style="color:windowtext;text-decoration:none"> </span></a></span><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:13pt;font-family:UICTFontTextStyleBody,serif"><a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.proofpoint.com*2Fv2*2Furl*3Fu*3Dhttps-3A__www.avast.com_sig-2Demail-3Futm-5Fmedium-3Demail-26utm-5Fsource-3Dlink-26utm-5Fcampaign-3Dsig-2Demail-26utm-5Fcontent-3Dwebmail*26d*3DDwMFaQ*26c*3DslrrB7dE8n7gBJbeO0g-IQ*26r*3DwQR1NePCSj6dOGDD0r6B5Kn1fcNaTMg7tARe7TdEDqQ*26m*3DwaSKY67JF57IZXg30ysFB_R7OG9zoQwFwxyps6FbTa1Zh5mttxRot_t4N7mn68Pj*26s*3DAo9QQWtO62go0hx1tb3NU6xw2FNBadjj8q64-hl5Sx4*26e*3D&data=04*7C01*7Ctgd*40oregonstate.edu*7C3db6ca275cc748415eaa08d9e732a318*7Cce6d05e13c5e4d6287a84c4a2713c113*7C0*7C0*7C637795026944990348*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C3000&sdata=gRfN5WuMr4*2BLwZMRqPOPaTJ97VoUB*2FVRMELwu5lQeiU*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJQ!!IKRxdwAv5BmarQ!IcLaVAupTYedSuWIPJGuIdRdOzEq4sib8fyufCCcC5bvaoUXwfrn-27dvH_NVZ8$" target="_blank"><span style="color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">What
I predicted, rather, was that multilayer perceptrons, as they existed then, would not (on their own, absent other mechanisms) </span><i><span style="font-family:UICTFontTextStyleItalicBody,serif;color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">understand</span></i><span style="color:windowtext;text-decoration:none"> language.
Seven years later, they still haven’t, except in the most superficial way. </span></a></span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:13pt"><a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.proofpoint.com*2Fv2*2Furl*3Fu*3Dhttps-3A__www.avast.com_sig-2Demail-3Futm-5Fmedium-3Demail-26utm-5Fsource-3Dlink-26utm-5Fcampaign-3Dsig-2Demail-26utm-5Fcontent-3Dwebmail*26d*3DDwMFaQ*26c*3DslrrB7dE8n7gBJbeO0g-IQ*26r*3DwQR1NePCSj6dOGDD0r6B5Kn1fcNaTMg7tARe7TdEDqQ*26m*3DwaSKY67JF57IZXg30ysFB_R7OG9zoQwFwxyps6FbTa1Zh5mttxRot_t4N7mn68Pj*26s*3DAo9QQWtO62go0hx1tb3NU6xw2FNBadjj8q64-hl5Sx4*26e*3D&data=04*7C01*7Ctgd*40oregonstate.edu*7C3db6ca275cc748415eaa08d9e732a318*7Cce6d05e13c5e4d6287a84c4a2713c113*7C0*7C0*7C637795026944990348*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C3000&sdata=gRfN5WuMr4*2BLwZMRqPOPaTJ97VoUB*2FVRMELwu5lQeiU*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJQ!!IKRxdwAv5BmarQ!IcLaVAupTYedSuWIPJGuIdRdOzEq4sib8fyufCCcC5bvaoUXwfrn-27dvH_NVZ8$" target="_blank"><span style="color:windowtext;text-decoration:none"> </span></a></span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:13pt;font-family:UICTFontTextStyleBody,serif"><a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.proofpoint.com*2Fv2*2Furl*3Fu*3Dhttps-3A__www.avast.com_sig-2Demail-3Futm-5Fmedium-3Demail-26utm-5Fsource-3Dlink-26utm-5Fcampaign-3Dsig-2Demail-26utm-5Fcontent-3Dwebmail*26d*3DDwMFaQ*26c*3DslrrB7dE8n7gBJbeO0g-IQ*26r*3DwQR1NePCSj6dOGDD0r6B5Kn1fcNaTMg7tARe7TdEDqQ*26m*3DwaSKY67JF57IZXg30ysFB_R7OG9zoQwFwxyps6FbTa1Zh5mttxRot_t4N7mn68Pj*26s*3DAo9QQWtO62go0hx1tb3NU6xw2FNBadjj8q64-hl5Sx4*26e*3D&data=04*7C01*7Ctgd*40oregonstate.edu*7C3db6ca275cc748415eaa08d9e732a318*7Cce6d05e13c5e4d6287a84c4a2713c113*7C0*7C0*7C637795026944990348*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C3000&sdata=gRfN5WuMr4*2BLwZMRqPOPaTJ97VoUB*2FVRMELwu5lQeiU*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJQ!!IKRxdwAv5BmarQ!IcLaVAupTYedSuWIPJGuIdRdOzEq4sib8fyufCCcC5bvaoUXwfrn-27dvH_NVZ8$" target="_blank"><span style="color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">I
made no comment whatsoever about machine translation, which I view as a separate problem, solvable to a certain degree by correspondance without semantics. </span></a></span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:13pt"><a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.proofpoint.com*2Fv2*2Furl*3Fu*3Dhttps-3A__www.avast.com_sig-2Demail-3Futm-5Fmedium-3Demail-26utm-5Fsource-3Dlink-26utm-5Fcampaign-3Dsig-2Demail-26utm-5Fcontent-3Dwebmail*26d*3DDwMFaQ*26c*3DslrrB7dE8n7gBJbeO0g-IQ*26r*3DwQR1NePCSj6dOGDD0r6B5Kn1fcNaTMg7tARe7TdEDqQ*26m*3DwaSKY67JF57IZXg30ysFB_R7OG9zoQwFwxyps6FbTa1Zh5mttxRot_t4N7mn68Pj*26s*3DAo9QQWtO62go0hx1tb3NU6xw2FNBadjj8q64-hl5Sx4*26e*3D&data=04*7C01*7Ctgd*40oregonstate.edu*7C3db6ca275cc748415eaa08d9e732a318*7Cce6d05e13c5e4d6287a84c4a2713c113*7C0*7C0*7C637795026944990348*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C3000&sdata=gRfN5WuMr4*2BLwZMRqPOPaTJ97VoUB*2FVRMELwu5lQeiU*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJQ!!IKRxdwAv5BmarQ!IcLaVAupTYedSuWIPJGuIdRdOzEq4sib8fyufCCcC5bvaoUXwfrn-27dvH_NVZ8$" target="_blank"><span style="color:windowtext;text-decoration:none"> </span></a></span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:13pt;font-family:UICTFontTextStyleBody,serif"><a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.proofpoint.com*2Fv2*2Furl*3Fu*3Dhttps-3A__www.avast.com_sig-2Demail-3Futm-5Fmedium-3Demail-26utm-5Fsource-3Dlink-26utm-5Fcampaign-3Dsig-2Demail-26utm-5Fcontent-3Dwebmail*26d*3DDwMFaQ*26c*3DslrrB7dE8n7gBJbeO0g-IQ*26r*3DwQR1NePCSj6dOGDD0r6B5Kn1fcNaTMg7tARe7TdEDqQ*26m*3DwaSKY67JF57IZXg30ysFB_R7OG9zoQwFwxyps6FbTa1Zh5mttxRot_t4N7mn68Pj*26s*3DAo9QQWtO62go0hx1tb3NU6xw2FNBadjj8q64-hl5Sx4*26e*3D&data=04*7C01*7Ctgd*40oregonstate.edu*7C3db6ca275cc748415eaa08d9e732a318*7Cce6d05e13c5e4d6287a84c4a2713c113*7C0*7C0*7C637795026944990348*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C3000&sdata=gRfN5WuMr4*2BLwZMRqPOPaTJ97VoUB*2FVRMELwu5lQeiU*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJQ!!IKRxdwAv5BmarQ!IcLaVAupTYedSuWIPJGuIdRdOzEq4sib8fyufCCcC5bvaoUXwfrn-27dvH_NVZ8$" target="_blank"><span style="color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">I
specifically tried to clarify Hinton’s confusion in 2019, but, disappointingly, he has continued to purvey misinformation despite that clarification. Here is what I wrote privately to him then, which should have put the matter to rest:</span></a></span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:13pt"><a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.proofpoint.com*2Fv2*2Furl*3Fu*3Dhttps-3A__www.avast.com_sig-2Demail-3Futm-5Fmedium-3Demail-26utm-5Fsource-3Dlink-26utm-5Fcampaign-3Dsig-2Demail-26utm-5Fcontent-3Dwebmail*26d*3DDwMFaQ*26c*3DslrrB7dE8n7gBJbeO0g-IQ*26r*3DwQR1NePCSj6dOGDD0r6B5Kn1fcNaTMg7tARe7TdEDqQ*26m*3DwaSKY67JF57IZXg30ysFB_R7OG9zoQwFwxyps6FbTa1Zh5mttxRot_t4N7mn68Pj*26s*3DAo9QQWtO62go0hx1tb3NU6xw2FNBadjj8q64-hl5Sx4*26e*3D&data=04*7C01*7Ctgd*40oregonstate.edu*7C3db6ca275cc748415eaa08d9e732a318*7Cce6d05e13c5e4d6287a84c4a2713c113*7C0*7C0*7C637795026944990348*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C3000&sdata=gRfN5WuMr4*2BLwZMRqPOPaTJ97VoUB*2FVRMELwu5lQeiU*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJQ!!IKRxdwAv5BmarQ!IcLaVAupTYedSuWIPJGuIdRdOzEq4sib8fyufCCcC5bvaoUXwfrn-27dvH_NVZ8$" target="_blank"><span style="color:windowtext;text-decoration:none"> </span></a></span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div style="margin-left:27pt;font-stretch:normal">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:13pt;font-family:UICTFontTextStyleBody,serif"><a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.proofpoint.com*2Fv2*2Furl*3Fu*3Dhttps-3A__www.avast.com_sig-2Demail-3Futm-5Fmedium-3Demail-26utm-5Fsource-3Dlink-26utm-5Fcampaign-3Dsig-2Demail-26utm-5Fcontent-3Dwebmail*26d*3DDwMFaQ*26c*3DslrrB7dE8n7gBJbeO0g-IQ*26r*3DwQR1NePCSj6dOGDD0r6B5Kn1fcNaTMg7tARe7TdEDqQ*26m*3DwaSKY67JF57IZXg30ysFB_R7OG9zoQwFwxyps6FbTa1Zh5mttxRot_t4N7mn68Pj*26s*3DAo9QQWtO62go0hx1tb3NU6xw2FNBadjj8q64-hl5Sx4*26e*3D&data=04*7C01*7Ctgd*40oregonstate.edu*7C3db6ca275cc748415eaa08d9e732a318*7Cce6d05e13c5e4d6287a84c4a2713c113*7C0*7C0*7C637795026944990348*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C3000&sdata=gRfN5WuMr4*2BLwZMRqPOPaTJ97VoUB*2FVRMELwu5lQeiU*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJQ!!IKRxdwAv5BmarQ!IcLaVAupTYedSuWIPJGuIdRdOzEq4sib8fyufCCcC5bvaoUXwfrn-27dvH_NVZ8$" target="_blank"><span style="color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">You
have taken a single out of context quote [from 2015] and misrepresented it. The quote, which you have prominently displayed at the bottom on your own web page, says:</span></a></span><u></u><u></u></p>
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<div style="margin-left:27pt;font-stretch:normal;min-height:22.9px">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:13pt"><a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.proofpoint.com*2Fv2*2Furl*3Fu*3Dhttps-3A__www.avast.com_sig-2Demail-3Futm-5Fmedium-3Demail-26utm-5Fsource-3Dlink-26utm-5Fcampaign-3Dsig-2Demail-26utm-5Fcontent-3Dwebmail*26d*3DDwMFaQ*26c*3DslrrB7dE8n7gBJbeO0g-IQ*26r*3DwQR1NePCSj6dOGDD0r6B5Kn1fcNaTMg7tARe7TdEDqQ*26m*3DwaSKY67JF57IZXg30ysFB_R7OG9zoQwFwxyps6FbTa1Zh5mttxRot_t4N7mn68Pj*26s*3DAo9QQWtO62go0hx1tb3NU6xw2FNBadjj8q64-hl5Sx4*26e*3D&data=04*7C01*7Ctgd*40oregonstate.edu*7C3db6ca275cc748415eaa08d9e732a318*7Cce6d05e13c5e4d6287a84c4a2713c113*7C0*7C0*7C637795026944990348*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C3000&sdata=gRfN5WuMr4*2BLwZMRqPOPaTJ97VoUB*2FVRMELwu5lQeiU*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJQ!!IKRxdwAv5BmarQ!IcLaVAupTYedSuWIPJGuIdRdOzEq4sib8fyufCCcC5bvaoUXwfrn-27dvH_NVZ8$" target="_blank"><span style="color:windowtext;text-decoration:none"> </span></a></span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div style="margin-left:0.75in;font-stretch:normal">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:13pt;font-family:UICTFontTextStyleBody,serif"><a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.proofpoint.com*2Fv2*2Furl*3Fu*3Dhttps-3A__www.avast.com_sig-2Demail-3Futm-5Fmedium-3Demail-26utm-5Fsource-3Dlink-26utm-5Fcampaign-3Dsig-2Demail-26utm-5Fcontent-3Dwebmail*26d*3DDwMFaQ*26c*3DslrrB7dE8n7gBJbeO0g-IQ*26r*3DwQR1NePCSj6dOGDD0r6B5Kn1fcNaTMg7tARe7TdEDqQ*26m*3DwaSKY67JF57IZXg30ysFB_R7OG9zoQwFwxyps6FbTa1Zh5mttxRot_t4N7mn68Pj*26s*3DAo9QQWtO62go0hx1tb3NU6xw2FNBadjj8q64-hl5Sx4*26e*3D&data=04*7C01*7Ctgd*40oregonstate.edu*7C3db6ca275cc748415eaa08d9e732a318*7Cce6d05e13c5e4d6287a84c4a2713c113*7C0*7C0*7C637795026944990348*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C3000&sdata=gRfN5WuMr4*2BLwZMRqPOPaTJ97VoUB*2FVRMELwu5lQeiU*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJQ!!IKRxdwAv5BmarQ!IcLaVAupTYedSuWIPJGuIdRdOzEq4sib8fyufCCcC5bvaoUXwfrn-27dvH_NVZ8$" target="_blank"><span style="color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">Hierarchies
of features are less suited to challenges such as language, inference, and high-level planning. For example, as Noam Chomsky famously pointed out, language is filled with sentences you haven't seen before. Pure classifier systems don't know what to do with
such sentences. The talent of feature detectors -- in identifying which member of some category something belongs to -- doesn't translate into understanding novel sentences, in which each sentence has its own unique meaning. </span></a></span><u></u><u></u></p>
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<div style="margin-left:27pt;font-stretch:normal;min-height:22.9px">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:13pt"><a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.proofpoint.com*2Fv2*2Furl*3Fu*3Dhttps-3A__www.avast.com_sig-2Demail-3Futm-5Fmedium-3Demail-26utm-5Fsource-3Dlink-26utm-5Fcampaign-3Dsig-2Demail-26utm-5Fcontent-3Dwebmail*26d*3DDwMFaQ*26c*3DslrrB7dE8n7gBJbeO0g-IQ*26r*3DwQR1NePCSj6dOGDD0r6B5Kn1fcNaTMg7tARe7TdEDqQ*26m*3DwaSKY67JF57IZXg30ysFB_R7OG9zoQwFwxyps6FbTa1Zh5mttxRot_t4N7mn68Pj*26s*3DAo9QQWtO62go0hx1tb3NU6xw2FNBadjj8q64-hl5Sx4*26e*3D&data=04*7C01*7Ctgd*40oregonstate.edu*7C3db6ca275cc748415eaa08d9e732a318*7Cce6d05e13c5e4d6287a84c4a2713c113*7C0*7C0*7C637795026944990348*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C3000&sdata=gRfN5WuMr4*2BLwZMRqPOPaTJ97VoUB*2FVRMELwu5lQeiU*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJQ!!IKRxdwAv5BmarQ!IcLaVAupTYedSuWIPJGuIdRdOzEq4sib8fyufCCcC5bvaoUXwfrn-27dvH_NVZ8$" target="_blank"><span style="color:windowtext;text-decoration:none"> </span></a></span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div style="margin-left:27pt;font-stretch:normal">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:13pt;font-family:UICTFontTextStyleBody,serif"><a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.proofpoint.com*2Fv2*2Furl*3Fu*3Dhttps-3A__www.avast.com_sig-2Demail-3Futm-5Fmedium-3Demail-26utm-5Fsource-3Dlink-26utm-5Fcampaign-3Dsig-2Demail-26utm-5Fcontent-3Dwebmail*26d*3DDwMFaQ*26c*3DslrrB7dE8n7gBJbeO0g-IQ*26r*3DwQR1NePCSj6dOGDD0r6B5Kn1fcNaTMg7tARe7TdEDqQ*26m*3DwaSKY67JF57IZXg30ysFB_R7OG9zoQwFwxyps6FbTa1Zh5mttxRot_t4N7mn68Pj*26s*3DAo9QQWtO62go0hx1tb3NU6xw2FNBadjj8q64-hl5Sx4*26e*3D&data=04*7C01*7Ctgd*40oregonstate.edu*7C3db6ca275cc748415eaa08d9e732a318*7Cce6d05e13c5e4d6287a84c4a2713c113*7C0*7C0*7C637795026944990348*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C3000&sdata=gRfN5WuMr4*2BLwZMRqPOPaTJ97VoUB*2FVRMELwu5lQeiU*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJQ!!IKRxdwAv5BmarQ!IcLaVAupTYedSuWIPJGuIdRdOzEq4sib8fyufCCcC5bvaoUXwfrn-27dvH_NVZ8$" target="_blank"><span style="color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">It
does </span><i><span style="font-family:UICTFontTextStyleItalicBody,serif;color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">not</span></i><span style="color:windowtext;text-decoration:none"> say "neural nets would not be able to deal with novel sentences"; it says that
hierachies of features detectors (on their own, if you read the context of the essay) would have trouble </span><i><span style="font-family:UICTFontTextStyleItalicBody,serif;color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">understanding </span></i><span style="color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">novel sentences.
</span></a></span><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:13pt"><a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.proofpoint.com*2Fv2*2Furl*3Fu*3Dhttps-3A__www.avast.com_sig-2Demail-3Futm-5Fmedium-3Demail-26utm-5Fsource-3Dlink-26utm-5Fcampaign-3Dsig-2Demail-26utm-5Fcontent-3Dwebmail*26d*3DDwMFaQ*26c*3DslrrB7dE8n7gBJbeO0g-IQ*26r*3DwQR1NePCSj6dOGDD0r6B5Kn1fcNaTMg7tARe7TdEDqQ*26m*3DwaSKY67JF57IZXg30ysFB_R7OG9zoQwFwxyps6FbTa1Zh5mttxRot_t4N7mn68Pj*26s*3DAo9QQWtO62go0hx1tb3NU6xw2FNBadjj8q64-hl5Sx4*26e*3D&data=04*7C01*7Ctgd*40oregonstate.edu*7C3db6ca275cc748415eaa08d9e732a318*7Cce6d05e13c5e4d6287a84c4a2713c113*7C0*7C0*7C637795026944990348*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C3000&sdata=gRfN5WuMr4*2BLwZMRqPOPaTJ97VoUB*2FVRMELwu5lQeiU*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJQ!!IKRxdwAv5BmarQ!IcLaVAupTYedSuWIPJGuIdRdOzEq4sib8fyufCCcC5bvaoUXwfrn-27dvH_NVZ8$" target="_blank"><span style="color:windowtext;text-decoration:none"> </span></a></span><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:13pt;font-family:UICTFontTextStyleBody,serif"><a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.proofpoint.com*2Fv2*2Furl*3Fu*3Dhttps-3A__www.avast.com_sig-2Demail-3Futm-5Fmedium-3Demail-26utm-5Fsource-3Dlink-26utm-5Fcampaign-3Dsig-2Demail-26utm-5Fcontent-3Dwebmail*26d*3DDwMFaQ*26c*3DslrrB7dE8n7gBJbeO0g-IQ*26r*3DwQR1NePCSj6dOGDD0r6B5Kn1fcNaTMg7tARe7TdEDqQ*26m*3DwaSKY67JF57IZXg30ysFB_R7OG9zoQwFwxyps6FbTa1Zh5mttxRot_t4N7mn68Pj*26s*3DAo9QQWtO62go0hx1tb3NU6xw2FNBadjj8q64-hl5Sx4*26e*3D&data=04*7C01*7Ctgd*40oregonstate.edu*7C3db6ca275cc748415eaa08d9e732a318*7Cce6d05e13c5e4d6287a84c4a2713c113*7C0*7C0*7C637795026944990348*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C3000&sdata=gRfN5WuMr4*2BLwZMRqPOPaTJ97VoUB*2FVRMELwu5lQeiU*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJQ!!IKRxdwAv5BmarQ!IcLaVAupTYedSuWIPJGuIdRdOzEq4sib8fyufCCcC5bvaoUXwfrn-27dvH_NVZ8$" target="_blank"><span style="color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">Google
Translate does yet not </span><i><span style="font-family:UICTFontTextStyleItalicBody,serif;color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">understand</span></i><span style="color:windowtext;text-decoration:none"> the content of the sentences is translates. It cannot
reliably answer questions about who did what to whom, or why, it cannot infer the order of the events in paragraphs, it can't determine the internal consistency of those events, and so forth.</span></a></span><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:13pt"><a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.proofpoint.com*2Fv2*2Furl*3Fu*3Dhttps-3A__www.avast.com_sig-2Demail-3Futm-5Fmedium-3Demail-26utm-5Fsource-3Dlink-26utm-5Fcampaign-3Dsig-2Demail-26utm-5Fcontent-3Dwebmail*26d*3DDwMFaQ*26c*3DslrrB7dE8n7gBJbeO0g-IQ*26r*3DwQR1NePCSj6dOGDD0r6B5Kn1fcNaTMg7tARe7TdEDqQ*26m*3DwaSKY67JF57IZXg30ysFB_R7OG9zoQwFwxyps6FbTa1Zh5mttxRot_t4N7mn68Pj*26s*3DAo9QQWtO62go0hx1tb3NU6xw2FNBadjj8q64-hl5Sx4*26e*3D&data=04*7C01*7Ctgd*40oregonstate.edu*7C3db6ca275cc748415eaa08d9e732a318*7Cce6d05e13c5e4d6287a84c4a2713c113*7C0*7C0*7C637795026944990348*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C3000&sdata=gRfN5WuMr4*2BLwZMRqPOPaTJ97VoUB*2FVRMELwu5lQeiU*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJQ!!IKRxdwAv5BmarQ!IcLaVAupTYedSuWIPJGuIdRdOzEq4sib8fyufCCcC5bvaoUXwfrn-27dvH_NVZ8$" target="_blank"><span style="color:windowtext;text-decoration:none"> </span></a></span><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:13pt;font-family:UICTFontTextStyleBody,serif"><a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.proofpoint.com*2Fv2*2Furl*3Fu*3Dhttps-3A__www.avast.com_sig-2Demail-3Futm-5Fmedium-3Demail-26utm-5Fsource-3Dlink-26utm-5Fcampaign-3Dsig-2Demail-26utm-5Fcontent-3Dwebmail*26d*3DDwMFaQ*26c*3DslrrB7dE8n7gBJbeO0g-IQ*26r*3DwQR1NePCSj6dOGDD0r6B5Kn1fcNaTMg7tARe7TdEDqQ*26m*3DwaSKY67JF57IZXg30ysFB_R7OG9zoQwFwxyps6FbTa1Zh5mttxRot_t4N7mn68Pj*26s*3DAo9QQWtO62go0hx1tb3NU6xw2FNBadjj8q64-hl5Sx4*26e*3D&data=04*7C01*7Ctgd*40oregonstate.edu*7C3db6ca275cc748415eaa08d9e732a318*7Cce6d05e13c5e4d6287a84c4a2713c113*7C0*7C0*7C637795026944990348*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C3000&sdata=gRfN5WuMr4*2BLwZMRqPOPaTJ97VoUB*2FVRMELwu5lQeiU*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJQ!!IKRxdwAv5BmarQ!IcLaVAupTYedSuWIPJGuIdRdOzEq4sib8fyufCCcC5bvaoUXwfrn-27dvH_NVZ8$" target="_blank"><span style="color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">Since
then, a number of scholars, such as the the computational linguist Emily Bender, have made similar points, and indeed current LLM difficulties with misinformation, incoherence and fabrication all follow from these concerns. Quoting from Bender’s prizewinning
2020 ACL article on the matter with Alexander Koller, </span>https://aclanthology.org/2020.acl-main.463.pdf<span style="color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">, also emphasizing issues of understanding and meaning:</span></a></span><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:13pt"><a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.proofpoint.com*2Fv2*2Furl*3Fu*3Dhttps-3A__www.avast.com_sig-2Demail-3Futm-5Fmedium-3Demail-26utm-5Fsource-3Dlink-26utm-5Fcampaign-3Dsig-2Demail-26utm-5Fcontent-3Dwebmail*26d*3DDwMFaQ*26c*3DslrrB7dE8n7gBJbeO0g-IQ*26r*3DwQR1NePCSj6dOGDD0r6B5Kn1fcNaTMg7tARe7TdEDqQ*26m*3DwaSKY67JF57IZXg30ysFB_R7OG9zoQwFwxyps6FbTa1Zh5mttxRot_t4N7mn68Pj*26s*3DAo9QQWtO62go0hx1tb3NU6xw2FNBadjj8q64-hl5Sx4*26e*3D&data=04*7C01*7Ctgd*40oregonstate.edu*7C3db6ca275cc748415eaa08d9e732a318*7Cce6d05e13c5e4d6287a84c4a2713c113*7C0*7C0*7C637795026944990348*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C3000&sdata=gRfN5WuMr4*2BLwZMRqPOPaTJ97VoUB*2FVRMELwu5lQeiU*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJQ!!IKRxdwAv5BmarQ!IcLaVAupTYedSuWIPJGuIdRdOzEq4sib8fyufCCcC5bvaoUXwfrn-27dvH_NVZ8$" target="_blank"><span style="color:windowtext;text-decoration:none"> </span></a></span><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><i><span style="font-size:13pt;font-family:UICTFontTextStyleItalicBody,serif"><a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.proofpoint.com*2Fv2*2Furl*3Fu*3Dhttps-3A__www.avast.com_sig-2Demail-3Futm-5Fmedium-3Demail-26utm-5Fsource-3Dlink-26utm-5Fcampaign-3Dsig-2Demail-26utm-5Fcontent-3Dwebmail*26d*3DDwMFaQ*26c*3DslrrB7dE8n7gBJbeO0g-IQ*26r*3DwQR1NePCSj6dOGDD0r6B5Kn1fcNaTMg7tARe7TdEDqQ*26m*3DwaSKY67JF57IZXg30ysFB_R7OG9zoQwFwxyps6FbTa1Zh5mttxRot_t4N7mn68Pj*26s*3DAo9QQWtO62go0hx1tb3NU6xw2FNBadjj8q64-hl5Sx4*26e*3D&data=04*7C01*7Ctgd*40oregonstate.edu*7C3db6ca275cc748415eaa08d9e732a318*7Cce6d05e13c5e4d6287a84c4a2713c113*7C0*7C0*7C637795026944990348*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C3000&sdata=gRfN5WuMr4*2BLwZMRqPOPaTJ97VoUB*2FVRMELwu5lQeiU*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJQ!!IKRxdwAv5BmarQ!IcLaVAupTYedSuWIPJGuIdRdOzEq4sib8fyufCCcC5bvaoUXwfrn-27dvH_NVZ8$" target="_blank"><span style="color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">The
success of the large neural language models on many NLP tasks is exciting. However, we find that these successes sometimes lead to hype in which these models are being described as “understanding” language or capturing “meaning”. In this position paper, we
argue that a system trained only on form has a priori no way to learn meaning. .. a clear understanding of the distinction between form and meaning will help guide the field towards better science around natural language understanding. </span></a></span></i><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:13pt"><a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.proofpoint.com*2Fv2*2Furl*3Fu*3Dhttps-3A__www.avast.com_sig-2Demail-3Futm-5Fmedium-3Demail-26utm-5Fsource-3Dlink-26utm-5Fcampaign-3Dsig-2Demail-26utm-5Fcontent-3Dwebmail*26d*3DDwMFaQ*26c*3DslrrB7dE8n7gBJbeO0g-IQ*26r*3DwQR1NePCSj6dOGDD0r6B5Kn1fcNaTMg7tARe7TdEDqQ*26m*3DwaSKY67JF57IZXg30ysFB_R7OG9zoQwFwxyps6FbTa1Zh5mttxRot_t4N7mn68Pj*26s*3DAo9QQWtO62go0hx1tb3NU6xw2FNBadjj8q64-hl5Sx4*26e*3D&data=04*7C01*7Ctgd*40oregonstate.edu*7C3db6ca275cc748415eaa08d9e732a318*7Cce6d05e13c5e4d6287a84c4a2713c113*7C0*7C0*7C637795026944990348*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C3000&sdata=gRfN5WuMr4*2BLwZMRqPOPaTJ97VoUB*2FVRMELwu5lQeiU*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJQ!!IKRxdwAv5BmarQ!IcLaVAupTYedSuWIPJGuIdRdOzEq4sib8fyufCCcC5bvaoUXwfrn-27dvH_NVZ8$" target="_blank"><span style="color:windowtext;text-decoration:none"> </span></a></span><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:13pt;font-family:UICTFontTextStyleBody,serif"><a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.proofpoint.com*2Fv2*2Furl*3Fu*3Dhttps-3A__www.avast.com_sig-2Demail-3Futm-5Fmedium-3Demail-26utm-5Fsource-3Dlink-26utm-5Fcampaign-3Dsig-2Demail-26utm-5Fcontent-3Dwebmail*26d*3DDwMFaQ*26c*3DslrrB7dE8n7gBJbeO0g-IQ*26r*3DwQR1NePCSj6dOGDD0r6B5Kn1fcNaTMg7tARe7TdEDqQ*26m*3DwaSKY67JF57IZXg30ysFB_R7OG9zoQwFwxyps6FbTa1Zh5mttxRot_t4N7mn68Pj*26s*3DAo9QQWtO62go0hx1tb3NU6xw2FNBadjj8q64-hl5Sx4*26e*3D&data=04*7C01*7Ctgd*40oregonstate.edu*7C3db6ca275cc748415eaa08d9e732a318*7Cce6d05e13c5e4d6287a84c4a2713c113*7C0*7C0*7C637795026944990348*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C3000&sdata=gRfN5WuMr4*2BLwZMRqPOPaTJ97VoUB*2FVRMELwu5lQeiU*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJQ!!IKRxdwAv5BmarQ!IcLaVAupTYedSuWIPJGuIdRdOzEq4sib8fyufCCcC5bvaoUXwfrn-27dvH_NVZ8$" target="_blank"><span style="color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">Her
later article with Gebru on language models “stochastic parrots” is in some ways an extension of this point; machine translation requires mimicry, true understanding (which is what I was discussing in 2015) requires something deeper than that. </span></a></span><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:13pt"><a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.proofpoint.com*2Fv2*2Furl*3Fu*3Dhttps-3A__www.avast.com_sig-2Demail-3Futm-5Fmedium-3Demail-26utm-5Fsource-3Dlink-26utm-5Fcampaign-3Dsig-2Demail-26utm-5Fcontent-3Dwebmail*26d*3DDwMFaQ*26c*3DslrrB7dE8n7gBJbeO0g-IQ*26r*3DwQR1NePCSj6dOGDD0r6B5Kn1fcNaTMg7tARe7TdEDqQ*26m*3DwaSKY67JF57IZXg30ysFB_R7OG9zoQwFwxyps6FbTa1Zh5mttxRot_t4N7mn68Pj*26s*3DAo9QQWtO62go0hx1tb3NU6xw2FNBadjj8q64-hl5Sx4*26e*3D&data=04*7C01*7Ctgd*40oregonstate.edu*7C3db6ca275cc748415eaa08d9e732a318*7Cce6d05e13c5e4d6287a84c4a2713c113*7C0*7C0*7C637795026944990348*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C3000&sdata=gRfN5WuMr4*2BLwZMRqPOPaTJ97VoUB*2FVRMELwu5lQeiU*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJQ!!IKRxdwAv5BmarQ!IcLaVAupTYedSuWIPJGuIdRdOzEq4sib8fyufCCcC5bvaoUXwfrn-27dvH_NVZ8$" target="_blank"><span style="color:windowtext;text-decoration:none"> </span></a></span><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:13pt;font-family:UICTFontTextStyleBody,serif"><a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.proofpoint.com*2Fv2*2Furl*3Fu*3Dhttps-3A__www.avast.com_sig-2Demail-3Futm-5Fmedium-3Demail-26utm-5Fsource-3Dlink-26utm-5Fcampaign-3Dsig-2Demail-26utm-5Fcontent-3Dwebmail*26d*3DDwMFaQ*26c*3DslrrB7dE8n7gBJbeO0g-IQ*26r*3DwQR1NePCSj6dOGDD0r6B5Kn1fcNaTMg7tARe7TdEDqQ*26m*3DwaSKY67JF57IZXg30ysFB_R7OG9zoQwFwxyps6FbTa1Zh5mttxRot_t4N7mn68Pj*26s*3DAo9QQWtO62go0hx1tb3NU6xw2FNBadjj8q64-hl5Sx4*26e*3D&data=04*7C01*7Ctgd*40oregonstate.edu*7C3db6ca275cc748415eaa08d9e732a318*7Cce6d05e13c5e4d6287a84c4a2713c113*7C0*7C0*7C637795026944990348*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C3000&sdata=gRfN5WuMr4*2BLwZMRqPOPaTJ97VoUB*2FVRMELwu5lQeiU*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJQ!!IKRxdwAv5BmarQ!IcLaVAupTYedSuWIPJGuIdRdOzEq4sib8fyufCCcC5bvaoUXwfrn-27dvH_NVZ8$" target="_blank"><span style="color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">Hinton’s
intellectual error here is in equating machine translation with the deeper comprehension that robust natural language understanding will require; as Bender and Koller observed, the two appear not to be the same. (There is a longer discussion of the relation
between language understanding and machine translation, and why the latter has turned out to be more approachable than the former, in my 2019 book with Ernest Davis).</span></a></span><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:13pt"><a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.proofpoint.com*2Fv2*2Furl*3Fu*3Dhttps-3A__www.avast.com_sig-2Demail-3Futm-5Fmedium-3Demail-26utm-5Fsource-3Dlink-26utm-5Fcampaign-3Dsig-2Demail-26utm-5Fcontent-3Dwebmail*26d*3DDwMFaQ*26c*3DslrrB7dE8n7gBJbeO0g-IQ*26r*3DwQR1NePCSj6dOGDD0r6B5Kn1fcNaTMg7tARe7TdEDqQ*26m*3DwaSKY67JF57IZXg30ysFB_R7OG9zoQwFwxyps6FbTa1Zh5mttxRot_t4N7mn68Pj*26s*3DAo9QQWtO62go0hx1tb3NU6xw2FNBadjj8q64-hl5Sx4*26e*3D&data=04*7C01*7Ctgd*40oregonstate.edu*7C3db6ca275cc748415eaa08d9e732a318*7Cce6d05e13c5e4d6287a84c4a2713c113*7C0*7C0*7C637795026944990348*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C3000&sdata=gRfN5WuMr4*2BLwZMRqPOPaTJ97VoUB*2FVRMELwu5lQeiU*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJQ!!IKRxdwAv5BmarQ!IcLaVAupTYedSuWIPJGuIdRdOzEq4sib8fyufCCcC5bvaoUXwfrn-27dvH_NVZ8$" target="_blank"><span style="color:windowtext;text-decoration:none"> </span></a></span><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:13pt;font-family:UICTFontTextStyleBody,serif"><a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.proofpoint.com*2Fv2*2Furl*3Fu*3Dhttps-3A__www.avast.com_sig-2Demail-3Futm-5Fmedium-3Demail-26utm-5Fsource-3Dlink-26utm-5Fcampaign-3Dsig-2Demail-26utm-5Fcontent-3Dwebmail*26d*3DDwMFaQ*26c*3DslrrB7dE8n7gBJbeO0g-IQ*26r*3DwQR1NePCSj6dOGDD0r6B5Kn1fcNaTMg7tARe7TdEDqQ*26m*3DwaSKY67JF57IZXg30ysFB_R7OG9zoQwFwxyps6FbTa1Zh5mttxRot_t4N7mn68Pj*26s*3DAo9QQWtO62go0hx1tb3NU6xw2FNBadjj8q64-hl5Sx4*26e*3D&data=04*7C01*7Ctgd*40oregonstate.edu*7C3db6ca275cc748415eaa08d9e732a318*7Cce6d05e13c5e4d6287a84c4a2713c113*7C0*7C0*7C637795026944990348*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C3000&sdata=gRfN5WuMr4*2BLwZMRqPOPaTJ97VoUB*2FVRMELwu5lQeiU*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJQ!!IKRxdwAv5BmarQ!IcLaVAupTYedSuWIPJGuIdRdOzEq4sib8fyufCCcC5bvaoUXwfrn-27dvH_NVZ8$" target="_blank"><span style="color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">More
broadly, Hinton’s ongoing dismissiveness of research from perspectives other than his own (e.g. linguistics) have done the field a disservice. </span></a></span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:13pt"><a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.proofpoint.com*2Fv2*2Furl*3Fu*3Dhttps-3A__www.avast.com_sig-2Demail-3Futm-5Fmedium-3Demail-26utm-5Fsource-3Dlink-26utm-5Fcampaign-3Dsig-2Demail-26utm-5Fcontent-3Dwebmail*26d*3DDwMFaQ*26c*3DslrrB7dE8n7gBJbeO0g-IQ*26r*3DwQR1NePCSj6dOGDD0r6B5Kn1fcNaTMg7tARe7TdEDqQ*26m*3DwaSKY67JF57IZXg30ysFB_R7OG9zoQwFwxyps6FbTa1Zh5mttxRot_t4N7mn68Pj*26s*3DAo9QQWtO62go0hx1tb3NU6xw2FNBadjj8q64-hl5Sx4*26e*3D&data=04*7C01*7Ctgd*40oregonstate.edu*7C3db6ca275cc748415eaa08d9e732a318*7Cce6d05e13c5e4d6287a84c4a2713c113*7C0*7C0*7C637795026944990348*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C3000&sdata=gRfN5WuMr4*2BLwZMRqPOPaTJ97VoUB*2FVRMELwu5lQeiU*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJQ!!IKRxdwAv5BmarQ!IcLaVAupTYedSuWIPJGuIdRdOzEq4sib8fyufCCcC5bvaoUXwfrn-27dvH_NVZ8$" target="_blank"><span style="color:windowtext;text-decoration:none"> </span></a></span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:13pt;font-family:UICTFontTextStyleBody,serif"><a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.proofpoint.com*2Fv2*2Furl*3Fu*3Dhttps-3A__www.avast.com_sig-2Demail-3Futm-5Fmedium-3Demail-26utm-5Fsource-3Dlink-26utm-5Fcampaign-3Dsig-2Demail-26utm-5Fcontent-3Dwebmail*26d*3DDwMFaQ*26c*3DslrrB7dE8n7gBJbeO0g-IQ*26r*3DwQR1NePCSj6dOGDD0r6B5Kn1fcNaTMg7tARe7TdEDqQ*26m*3DwaSKY67JF57IZXg30ysFB_R7OG9zoQwFwxyps6FbTa1Zh5mttxRot_t4N7mn68Pj*26s*3DAo9QQWtO62go0hx1tb3NU6xw2FNBadjj8q64-hl5Sx4*26e*3D&data=04*7C01*7Ctgd*40oregonstate.edu*7C3db6ca275cc748415eaa08d9e732a318*7Cce6d05e13c5e4d6287a84c4a2713c113*7C0*7C0*7C637795026944990348*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C3000&sdata=gRfN5WuMr4*2BLwZMRqPOPaTJ97VoUB*2FVRMELwu5lQeiU*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJQ!!IKRxdwAv5BmarQ!IcLaVAupTYedSuWIPJGuIdRdOzEq4sib8fyufCCcC5bvaoUXwfrn-27dvH_NVZ8$" target="_blank"><span style="color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">As
Herb Simon once observed, science does not have to be zero-sum.</span></a></span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:13pt"><a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.proofpoint.com*2Fv2*2Furl*3Fu*3Dhttps-3A__www.avast.com_sig-2Demail-3Futm-5Fmedium-3Demail-26utm-5Fsource-3Dlink-26utm-5Fcampaign-3Dsig-2Demail-26utm-5Fcontent-3Dwebmail*26d*3DDwMFaQ*26c*3DslrrB7dE8n7gBJbeO0g-IQ*26r*3DwQR1NePCSj6dOGDD0r6B5Kn1fcNaTMg7tARe7TdEDqQ*26m*3DwaSKY67JF57IZXg30ysFB_R7OG9zoQwFwxyps6FbTa1Zh5mttxRot_t4N7mn68Pj*26s*3DAo9QQWtO62go0hx1tb3NU6xw2FNBadjj8q64-hl5Sx4*26e*3D&data=04*7C01*7Ctgd*40oregonstate.edu*7C3db6ca275cc748415eaa08d9e732a318*7Cce6d05e13c5e4d6287a84c4a2713c113*7C0*7C0*7C637795026944990348*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C3000&sdata=gRfN5WuMr4*2BLwZMRqPOPaTJ97VoUB*2FVRMELwu5lQeiU*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJQ!!IKRxdwAv5BmarQ!IcLaVAupTYedSuWIPJGuIdRdOzEq4sib8fyufCCcC5bvaoUXwfrn-27dvH_NVZ8$" target="_blank"><span style="color:windowtext;text-decoration:none"> </span></a></span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:13pt;font-family:UICTFontTextStyleBody,serif"><a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.proofpoint.com*2Fv2*2Furl*3Fu*3Dhttps-3A__www.avast.com_sig-2Demail-3Futm-5Fmedium-3Demail-26utm-5Fsource-3Dlink-26utm-5Fcampaign-3Dsig-2Demail-26utm-5Fcontent-3Dwebmail*26d*3DDwMFaQ*26c*3DslrrB7dE8n7gBJbeO0g-IQ*26r*3DwQR1NePCSj6dOGDD0r6B5Kn1fcNaTMg7tARe7TdEDqQ*26m*3DwaSKY67JF57IZXg30ysFB_R7OG9zoQwFwxyps6FbTa1Zh5mttxRot_t4N7mn68Pj*26s*3DAo9QQWtO62go0hx1tb3NU6xw2FNBadjj8q64-hl5Sx4*26e*3D&data=04*7C01*7Ctgd*40oregonstate.edu*7C3db6ca275cc748415eaa08d9e732a318*7Cce6d05e13c5e4d6287a84c4a2713c113*7C0*7C0*7C637795026944990348*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C3000&sdata=gRfN5WuMr4*2BLwZMRqPOPaTJ97VoUB*2FVRMELwu5lQeiU*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJQ!!IKRxdwAv5BmarQ!IcLaVAupTYedSuWIPJGuIdRdOzEq4sib8fyufCCcC5bvaoUXwfrn-27dvH_NVZ8$" target="_blank"><span style="color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">Sincerely,</span></a></span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:13pt;font-family:UICTFontTextStyleBody,serif"><a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.proofpoint.com*2Fv2*2Furl*3Fu*3Dhttps-3A__www.avast.com_sig-2Demail-3Futm-5Fmedium-3Demail-26utm-5Fsource-3Dlink-26utm-5Fcampaign-3Dsig-2Demail-26utm-5Fcontent-3Dwebmail*26d*3DDwMFaQ*26c*3DslrrB7dE8n7gBJbeO0g-IQ*26r*3DwQR1NePCSj6dOGDD0r6B5Kn1fcNaTMg7tARe7TdEDqQ*26m*3DwaSKY67JF57IZXg30ysFB_R7OG9zoQwFwxyps6FbTa1Zh5mttxRot_t4N7mn68Pj*26s*3DAo9QQWtO62go0hx1tb3NU6xw2FNBadjj8q64-hl5Sx4*26e*3D&data=04*7C01*7Ctgd*40oregonstate.edu*7C3db6ca275cc748415eaa08d9e732a318*7Cce6d05e13c5e4d6287a84c4a2713c113*7C0*7C0*7C637795026944990348*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C3000&sdata=gRfN5WuMr4*2BLwZMRqPOPaTJ97VoUB*2FVRMELwu5lQeiU*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJQ!!IKRxdwAv5BmarQ!IcLaVAupTYedSuWIPJGuIdRdOzEq4sib8fyufCCcC5bvaoUXwfrn-27dvH_NVZ8$" target="_blank"><span style="color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">Gary
Marcus</span></a></span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:13pt;font-family:UICTFontTextStyleBody,serif"><a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.proofpoint.com*2Fv2*2Furl*3Fu*3Dhttps-3A__www.avast.com_sig-2Demail-3Futm-5Fmedium-3Demail-26utm-5Fsource-3Dlink-26utm-5Fcampaign-3Dsig-2Demail-26utm-5Fcontent-3Dwebmail*26d*3DDwMFaQ*26c*3DslrrB7dE8n7gBJbeO0g-IQ*26r*3DwQR1NePCSj6dOGDD0r6B5Kn1fcNaTMg7tARe7TdEDqQ*26m*3DwaSKY67JF57IZXg30ysFB_R7OG9zoQwFwxyps6FbTa1Zh5mttxRot_t4N7mn68Pj*26s*3DAo9QQWtO62go0hx1tb3NU6xw2FNBadjj8q64-hl5Sx4*26e*3D&data=04*7C01*7Ctgd*40oregonstate.edu*7C3db6ca275cc748415eaa08d9e732a318*7Cce6d05e13c5e4d6287a84c4a2713c113*7C0*7C0*7C637795026944990348*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C3000&sdata=gRfN5WuMr4*2BLwZMRqPOPaTJ97VoUB*2FVRMELwu5lQeiU*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJQ!!IKRxdwAv5BmarQ!IcLaVAupTYedSuWIPJGuIdRdOzEq4sib8fyufCCcC5bvaoUXwfrn-27dvH_NVZ8$" target="_blank"><span style="color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">Professor
Emeritus</span></a></span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:13pt;font-family:UICTFontTextStyleBody,serif"><a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.proofpoint.com*2Fv2*2Furl*3Fu*3Dhttps-3A__www.avast.com_sig-2Demail-3Futm-5Fmedium-3Demail-26utm-5Fsource-3Dlink-26utm-5Fcampaign-3Dsig-2Demail-26utm-5Fcontent-3Dwebmail*26d*3DDwMFaQ*26c*3DslrrB7dE8n7gBJbeO0g-IQ*26r*3DwQR1NePCSj6dOGDD0r6B5Kn1fcNaTMg7tARe7TdEDqQ*26m*3DwaSKY67JF57IZXg30ysFB_R7OG9zoQwFwxyps6FbTa1Zh5mttxRot_t4N7mn68Pj*26s*3DAo9QQWtO62go0hx1tb3NU6xw2FNBadjj8q64-hl5Sx4*26e*3D&data=04*7C01*7Ctgd*40oregonstate.edu*7C3db6ca275cc748415eaa08d9e732a318*7Cce6d05e13c5e4d6287a84c4a2713c113*7C0*7C0*7C637795026944990348*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C3000&sdata=gRfN5WuMr4*2BLwZMRqPOPaTJ97VoUB*2FVRMELwu5lQeiU*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJQ!!IKRxdwAv5BmarQ!IcLaVAupTYedSuWIPJGuIdRdOzEq4sib8fyufCCcC5bvaoUXwfrn-27dvH_NVZ8$" target="_blank"><span style="color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">New
York University</span></a></span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt"><a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.proofpoint.com*2Fv2*2Furl*3Fu*3Dhttps-3A__www.avast.com_sig-2Demail-3Futm-5Fmedium-3Demail-26utm-5Fsource-3Dlink-26utm-5Fcampaign-3Dsig-2Demail-26utm-5Fcontent-3Dwebmail*26d*3DDwMFaQ*26c*3DslrrB7dE8n7gBJbeO0g-IQ*26r*3DwQR1NePCSj6dOGDD0r6B5Kn1fcNaTMg7tARe7TdEDqQ*26m*3DwaSKY67JF57IZXg30ysFB_R7OG9zoQwFwxyps6FbTa1Zh5mttxRot_t4N7mn68Pj*26s*3DAo9QQWtO62go0hx1tb3NU6xw2FNBadjj8q64-hl5Sx4*26e*3D&data=04*7C01*7Ctgd*40oregonstate.edu*7C3db6ca275cc748415eaa08d9e732a318*7Cce6d05e13c5e4d6287a84c4a2713c113*7C0*7C0*7C637795026944990348*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C3000&sdata=gRfN5WuMr4*2BLwZMRqPOPaTJ97VoUB*2FVRMELwu5lQeiU*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJQ!!IKRxdwAv5BmarQ!IcLaVAupTYedSuWIPJGuIdRdOzEq4sib8fyufCCcC5bvaoUXwfrn-27dvH_NVZ8$" target="_blank"><span style="color:windowtext;text-decoration:none"> </span></a><u></u><u></u></p>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5pt;margin-bottom:5pt">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt"><a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.proofpoint.com*2Fv2*2Furl*3Fu*3Dhttps-3A__www.avast.com_sig-2Demail-3Futm-5Fmedium-3Demail-26utm-5Fsource-3Dlink-26utm-5Fcampaign-3Dsig-2Demail-26utm-5Fcontent-3Dwebmail*26d*3DDwMFaQ*26c*3DslrrB7dE8n7gBJbeO0g-IQ*26r*3DwQR1NePCSj6dOGDD0r6B5Kn1fcNaTMg7tARe7TdEDqQ*26m*3DwaSKY67JF57IZXg30ysFB_R7OG9zoQwFwxyps6FbTa1Zh5mttxRot_t4N7mn68Pj*26s*3DAo9QQWtO62go0hx1tb3NU6xw2FNBadjj8q64-hl5Sx4*26e*3D&data=04*7C01*7Ctgd*40oregonstate.edu*7C3db6ca275cc748415eaa08d9e732a318*7Cce6d05e13c5e4d6287a84c4a2713c113*7C0*7C0*7C637795026944990348*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C3000&sdata=gRfN5WuMr4*2BLwZMRqPOPaTJ97VoUB*2FVRMELwu5lQeiU*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJQ!!IKRxdwAv5BmarQ!IcLaVAupTYedSuWIPJGuIdRdOzEq4sib8fyufCCcC5bvaoUXwfrn-27dvH_NVZ8$" target="_blank"><span style="color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">On
Feb 2, 2022, at 06:12, AIhub <</span>aihuborg@gmail.com<span style="color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">> wrote:</span></a><u></u><u></u></p>
</blockquote>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5pt;margin-bottom:5pt">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.proofpoint.com*2Fv2*2Furl*3Fu*3Dhttps-3A__www.avast.com_sig-2Demail-3Futm-5Fmedium-3Demail-26utm-5Fsource-3Dlink-26utm-5Fcampaign-3Dsig-2Demail-26utm-5Fcontent-3Dwebmail*26d*3DDwMFaQ*26c*3DslrrB7dE8n7gBJbeO0g-IQ*26r*3DwQR1NePCSj6dOGDD0r6B5Kn1fcNaTMg7tARe7TdEDqQ*26m*3DwaSKY67JF57IZXg30ysFB_R7OG9zoQwFwxyps6FbTa1Zh5mttxRot_t4N7mn68Pj*26s*3DAo9QQWtO62go0hx1tb3NU6xw2FNBadjj8q64-hl5Sx4*26e*3D&data=04*7C01*7Ctgd*40oregonstate.edu*7C3db6ca275cc748415eaa08d9e732a318*7Cce6d05e13c5e4d6287a84c4a2713c113*7C0*7C0*7C637795026944990348*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C3000&sdata=gRfN5WuMr4*2BLwZMRqPOPaTJ97VoUB*2FVRMELwu5lQeiU*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJQ!!IKRxdwAv5BmarQ!IcLaVAupTYedSuWIPJGuIdRdOzEq4sib8fyufCCcC5bvaoUXwfrn-27dvH_NVZ8$" target="_blank"><span style="color:windowtext;text-decoration:none"></span></a><u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.proofpoint.com*2Fv2*2Furl*3Fu*3Dhttps-3A__www.avast.com_sig-2Demail-3Futm-5Fmedium-3Demail-26utm-5Fsource-3Dlink-26utm-5Fcampaign-3Dsig-2Demail-26utm-5Fcontent-3Dwebmail*26d*3DDwMFaQ*26c*3DslrrB7dE8n7gBJbeO0g-IQ*26r*3DwQR1NePCSj6dOGDD0r6B5Kn1fcNaTMg7tARe7TdEDqQ*26m*3DwaSKY67JF57IZXg30ysFB_R7OG9zoQwFwxyps6FbTa1Zh5mttxRot_t4N7mn68Pj*26s*3DAo9QQWtO62go0hx1tb3NU6xw2FNBadjj8q64-hl5Sx4*26e*3D&data=04*7C01*7Ctgd*40oregonstate.edu*7C3db6ca275cc748415eaa08d9e732a318*7Cce6d05e13c5e4d6287a84c4a2713c113*7C0*7C0*7C637795026944990348*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C3000&sdata=gRfN5WuMr4*2BLwZMRqPOPaTJ97VoUB*2FVRMELwu5lQeiU*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJQ!!IKRxdwAv5BmarQ!IcLaVAupTYedSuWIPJGuIdRdOzEq4sib8fyufCCcC5bvaoUXwfrn-27dvH_NVZ8$" target="_blank"><span style="color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">Stephen
Hanson in conversation with Geoff Hinton</span></a><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.proofpoint.com*2Fv2*2Furl*3Fu*3Dhttps-3A__www.avast.com_sig-2Demail-3Futm-5Fmedium-3Demail-26utm-5Fsource-3Dlink-26utm-5Fcampaign-3Dsig-2Demail-26utm-5Fcontent-3Dwebmail*26d*3DDwMFaQ*26c*3DslrrB7dE8n7gBJbeO0g-IQ*26r*3DwQR1NePCSj6dOGDD0r6B5Kn1fcNaTMg7tARe7TdEDqQ*26m*3DwaSKY67JF57IZXg30ysFB_R7OG9zoQwFwxyps6FbTa1Zh5mttxRot_t4N7mn68Pj*26s*3DAo9QQWtO62go0hx1tb3NU6xw2FNBadjj8q64-hl5Sx4*26e*3D&data=04*7C01*7Ctgd*40oregonstate.edu*7C3db6ca275cc748415eaa08d9e732a318*7Cce6d05e13c5e4d6287a84c4a2713c113*7C0*7C0*7C637795026944990348*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C3000&sdata=gRfN5WuMr4*2BLwZMRqPOPaTJ97VoUB*2FVRMELwu5lQeiU*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJQ!!IKRxdwAv5BmarQ!IcLaVAupTYedSuWIPJGuIdRdOzEq4sib8fyufCCcC5bvaoUXwfrn-27dvH_NVZ8$" target="_blank"><span style="color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">In
the latest episode of this video series for </span>AIhub.org<span style="color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">, Stephen Hanson talks to Geoff Hinton about neural networks, backpropagation, overparameterization, digit recognition, voxel cells, syntax and
semantics, Winograd sentences, and more.</span></a><u></u><u></u></p>
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can watch the discussion, and read the transcript, here:<br clear="all">
</span></a><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.proofpoint.com*2Fv2*2Furl*3Fu*3Dhttps-3A__www.avast.com_sig-2Demail-3Futm-5Fmedium-3Demail-26utm-5Fsource-3Dlink-26utm-5Fcampaign-3Dsig-2Demail-26utm-5Fcontent-3Dwebmail*26d*3DDwMFaQ*26c*3DslrrB7dE8n7gBJbeO0g-IQ*26r*3DwQR1NePCSj6dOGDD0r6B5Kn1fcNaTMg7tARe7TdEDqQ*26m*3DwaSKY67JF57IZXg30ysFB_R7OG9zoQwFwxyps6FbTa1Zh5mttxRot_t4N7mn68Pj*26s*3DAo9QQWtO62go0hx1tb3NU6xw2FNBadjj8q64-hl5Sx4*26e*3D&data=04*7C01*7Ctgd*40oregonstate.edu*7C3db6ca275cc748415eaa08d9e732a318*7Cce6d05e13c5e4d6287a84c4a2713c113*7C0*7C0*7C637795026944990348*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C3000&sdata=gRfN5WuMr4*2BLwZMRqPOPaTJ97VoUB*2FVRMELwu5lQeiU*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJQ!!IKRxdwAv5BmarQ!IcLaVAupTYedSuWIPJGuIdRdOzEq4sib8fyufCCcC5bvaoUXwfrn-27dvH_NVZ8$" target="_blank">https://aihub.org/2022/02/02/what-is-ai-stephen-hanson-in-conversation-with-geoff-hinton/</a><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
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AIhub: </span></a></span><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif"><a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.proofpoint.com*2Fv2*2Furl*3Fu*3Dhttps-3A__www.avast.com_sig-2Demail-3Futm-5Fmedium-3Demail-26utm-5Fsource-3Dlink-26utm-5Fcampaign-3Dsig-2Demail-26utm-5Fcontent-3Dwebmail*26d*3DDwMFaQ*26c*3DslrrB7dE8n7gBJbeO0g-IQ*26r*3DwQR1NePCSj6dOGDD0r6B5Kn1fcNaTMg7tARe7TdEDqQ*26m*3DwaSKY67JF57IZXg30ysFB_R7OG9zoQwFwxyps6FbTa1Zh5mttxRot_t4N7mn68Pj*26s*3DAo9QQWtO62go0hx1tb3NU6xw2FNBadjj8q64-hl5Sx4*26e*3D&data=04*7C01*7Ctgd*40oregonstate.edu*7C3db6ca275cc748415eaa08d9e732a318*7Cce6d05e13c5e4d6287a84c4a2713c113*7C0*7C0*7C637795026944990348*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C3000&sdata=gRfN5WuMr4*2BLwZMRqPOPaTJ97VoUB*2FVRMELwu5lQeiU*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJQ!!IKRxdwAv5BmarQ!IcLaVAupTYedSuWIPJGuIdRdOzEq4sib8fyufCCcC5bvaoUXwfrn-27dvH_NVZ8$" target="_blank"><span style="color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">AIhub
is a non-profit dedicated to connecting the AI community to the public by providing free, high-quality information through
</span>AIhub.org<span style="color:windowtext;text-decoration:none"> (</span>https://aihub.org/<span style="color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">). We help researchers publish the latest AI news, summaries of their work, opinion pieces, tutorials and more.
We are supported by many leading scientific organizations in AI, namely </span>AAAI<span style="color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">,
</span>NeurIPS<span style="color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">, </span>ICML<span style="color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">,
</span>AIJ<span style="color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">/</span>IJCAI<span style="color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">,
</span>ACM SIGAI<span style="color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">, EurAI/AICOMM,
</span>CLAIRE<span style="color:windowtext;text-decoration:none"> and </span>RoboCup<span style="color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">.</span></a></span><u></u><u></u></p>
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@aihuborg</span></a></span><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">-- <u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Juyang (John) Weng<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">-- <u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Juyang (John) Weng<u></u><u></u></p>
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-- <br>
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_signature">
<div dir="ltr">Juyang (John) Weng<br>
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