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<font face="Times New Roman, Times, serif">Jim,<br>
<br>
Before you check out there is one question that I wanted you to
address. I think you believe that the brain is irreducibly complex
so that Kolmogorov complexity of the brain is the brain itself.
Is this true? If this is true then the only model of the brain is
the brain itself. We can reconstruct it by faithfully simulating
it but there is no abstraction of it that is simpler than the
whole thing, right? In such a situation, what does it mean to
understand the brain? <br>
<br>
Also, while I agree that we should focus only on things that
evolution can affect I don't think we can say how optimal the
brain is. Three billion years may be a long time to us but nature
can only search a miniscule sample of genome space in that time.
All we can really say is that the brain is locally optimal
conditioned on its entire history. Thus, we have no idea of how
many possible ways to construct brains that have performance
capabilities similar to mammals.<br>
<br>
best,<br>
Carson<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
</font>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 1/28/14 4:14 PM, james bower wrote:<br>
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cite="mid:D4D03751-E7F4-412F-8949-C67CC52DCB1E@uthscsa.edu"
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Ok, had enough here - back to work.
<div><br>
</div>
<div>It is emblematic, however, for me of the larger problem that
a discussion that started out by raising concerns about abstract
models, disconnected from the physical realty of machine we are
supposed to be understanding, has turned into a debate about
quantum theory and consciousness.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I rest my case</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>The very best to everyone and to all of us as we try to
figure this out. I have no doubt that everyone is sincere and
truly believes in the approach they are taking. For my part, I
will stick with the nuts and bolts.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Jim Bower</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>p.s Last one - personally I take Darwin’s view that the
question of consciousness isn’t that interesting. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
<div>
<div>On Jan 28, 2014, at 2:50 PM, Richard Loosemore <<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:rloosemore@susaro.com">rloosemore@susaro.com</a>>
wrote:</div>
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<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000"> On 1/28/14, 3:09
PM, Brian J Mingus wrote:
<blockquote
cite="mid:CAJ=QoBSJ_=GQr=8cPg8Jo9wmtCLR7qs6Gy94cdghspRaHG0S1Q@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">Hi Richard, thanks for the feedback.
<div><br>
</div>
<div><span
style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.727272033691406px">>
Yes, in general, having an outcome measure that
correlates with C ... that is good, but only
with a clear and unambigous meaning for C itself
(which I don't think anyone has, so therefore it
is, after all, of no value to look for outcome
measures that correlate)</span><br>
</div>
<div><span
style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.727272033691406px"><br>
</span></div>
<div><font face="arial, sans-serif">Actually, the
outcome measure I described is independent of a
clear and unambiguous meaning for C itself, and
in an interesting way: the models, like us,
essentially reinvent the entire literature, and
have a conversation as we do, inventing almost
all the same positions that we've invented
(including the one in your paper). </font></div>
<div><font face="arial, sans-serif"><br>
</font></div>
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<br>
I can tell you in advance that the theory I propose in
that paper makes a prediction there. If your models (I
assume you mean models of the human cognitive system)
have precisely the right positioning for their 'concept
analysis mechanism' (and they almost certainly would
have to... it is difficult to avoid), then they would
indeed "reinvent the entire literature, and have a
conversation as we do, inventing almost all the same
positions that we've invented".<br>
<br>
However, I can say *why* they should do this, as a
tightly-argued consequence of the theory itself, and I
can also say why they should express those same
confusions about consciousness that we do. <br>
<br>
I think that is the key. I don't think the naked fact
that a model-of-cognition reinvents the philosophy of
mind would actually tell us anything, sadly. There is
no strong logical compulsion there. It would boot me
little to know that they had done that.<br>
<br>
Anyhow, look forward to hearing your thoughts if/when
you get a chance.<br>
<br>
Richard Loosemore<br>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 14pt;
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