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Dear Matthew:<br>
<br>
My apology if my words are direct, so that people with short
attention spans can quickly get my points. I do respect you.<br>
<br>
You wrote: "to build hardware that works in a more brain-like way
than conventional computers do. This is not what is usually meant
by research in neural networks."<br>
<br>
Your statement is absolutely not true. Your term "brain-like way"
is as old as "brain-like computing". Read about the 14
neurocomputers built by 1988 in Robert Hecht-Nielsen,
"Neurocomputing: picking the human brain", IEEE Spectrum 25(3),
March 1988, pp. 36-41. Hardware will not solve the fundamental
problems of the current human severe lack in understanding the
brain, no matter how many computers are linked together. Neither
will the current "Big Data" fanfare from NSF in U.S.. The IBM's
brain project has similar fundamental flaws and the IBM team lacks
key experts. <br>
<br>
Some of the NSF managers have been turning blind eyes to
breakthrough work on brain modeling for over a decade, but they want
to waste more taxpayer's money into its "Big Data" fanfare and other
"try again" fanfares. It is a scientific shame for NSF in a
developed country like U.S. to do that shameful politics without
real science, causing another large developing country like China to
also echo "Big Data". "Big Data" was called "Large Data", well
known in Pattern Recognition for many years. Stop playing shameful
politics in science! <br>
<br>
You wrote: "Nobody is claiming a `brain-scale theory that bridges
the wide gap,' or even close." <br>
<br>
To say that, you have not read the book: <a
href="http://www.brain-mind-institute.org/press.html">Natural and
Artificial Intelligence</a>. You are falling behind the
literature so bad as some of our NSF project managers. With their
lack of knowledge, they did not understand that the "bridge" was in
print on their desks and in the literature. <br>
<br>
-John<br>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 1/23/14 6:15 PM, Matthew Cook wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:3CB75368-ECE9-42B3-BBEB-E695E46DBAB0@paradise.caltech.edu"
type="cite">Dear John,
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I think all of us on this list are interested in brain-like
computing, so I don't understand your negativity on the topic.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Many of the speakers are involved in efforts to build
hardware that works in a more brain-like way than conventional
computers do. This is not what is usually meant by research in
neural networks. I suspect the phrase "brain-like computing" is
intended as an umbrella term that can cover all of these
efforts.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I think you are reading far more into the announcement than
is there. Nobody is claiming a "brain-scale theory that bridges
the wide gap," or even close. To the contrary, the announcement
is very cautious, saying that intense research is "gradually
increasing our understanding" and "beginning to shed light on
the human brain". In other words, the research advances slowly,
and we are at the beginning. There is certainly no claim that
any of the speakers has finished the job.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Similarly, the announcement refers to "successful
demonstration of some of the underlying principles [of the
brain] in software and hardware", which implicitly acknowledges
that we do not have all the principles. There is nothing like a
claim that anyone has enough principles to "explain highly
integrated brain functions".</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>You are concerned that this workshop will avoid the essential
issue of the wide gap between neuron-like computing and highly
integrated brain functions. What makes you think it will avoid
this? We are all interested in filling this gap, and the
speakers (well, the ones who I know) all either work on this, or
work on supporting people who work on this, or both.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>This looks like it will be a very nice workshop, with talks
from leaders in the field on a variety of topics, and I wish I
were able to attend it.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Matthew</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
<div>
<div>On Jan 23, 2014, at 7:08 PM, Juyang Weng wrote:</div>
<br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
<blockquote type="cite">
<meta content="text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1"
http-equiv="Content-Type">
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000"> Dear Anders,<br>
<br>
Interesting topic about the brain! But Brain-Like
Computing is misleading because neural networks have been
around for at least 70 years.<br>
<br>
I quote: "We are now approaching the point when our
knowledge will enable successful demonstrations of some of
the underlying principles in software and hardware, i.e.
brain-like computing."<br>
<br>
What are the underlying principles? I am concerned that
projects like "Brain-Like Computing" avoid essential
issues: <br>
the wide gap between neuron-like computing and well-known
highly integrated brain functions.<br>
Continuing this avoidance would again create bad names for
"brain-like computing", just such behaviors did for
"neural networks".<br>
<br>
Henry Markram criticized IBM's brain project which does
miss essential brain principles, but has he published such
principles?<br>
Modeling individual neurons more and more precisely will
explain highly integrated brain functions? From what I
know, definitely not, by far. <br>
<br>
Has any of your 10 speakers published any brain-scale
theory that bridges the wide gap? Are you aware of any
such published theories? <br>
<br>
I am sorry for giving a CC to the list, but many on the
list said that they like to hear discussions instead of
just event announcements. <br>
<br>
-John<br>
<br>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 1/13/14 12:14 PM, Anders
Lansner wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:1fa801cf1082$f7844f30$e68ced90$@csc.kth.se"
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<h1 style="background:white"><span lang="EN">Workshop
on Brain-Like Computing, February 5-6 2014<o:p></o:p></span></h1>
<p style="background:white"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt" lang="EN">The exciting
prospects of developing brain-like information
processing is one of the Deans Forum focus areas.<br>
As a means to encourage progress in this research
area a Workshop is arranged February 5th-6th 2014
on KTH campus in Stockholm. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style="background:white"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt" lang="EN">The human brain
excels over contemporary computers and robots in
processing real-time unstructured information and
uncertain data as well as in controlling a complex
mechanical platform with multiple degrees of
freedom like the human body. Intense experimental
research complemented by computational and
informatics efforts are gradually increasing our
understanding of underlying processes and
mechanisms in small animal and mammalian brains
and are beginning to shed light on the human
brain. We are now approaching the point when our
knowledge will enable successful demonstrations of
some of the underlying principles in software and
hardware, i.e. brain-like computing.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style="background:white"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt" lang="EN">This workshop
assembles experts, from the partners and also
other leading names in the field, to provide an
overview of the state-of-the-art in theoretical,
software, and hardware aspects of brain-like
computing.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<h2 style="background:white"><span lang="EN">List of
speakers<o:p></o:p></span></h2>
<table class="MsoNormalTable"
style="width:303.0pt;border-collapse:collapse"
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<td style="padding:0cm 0cm 0cm
0cm;height:15.75pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><strong><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">Speaker</span></strong><span
style="font-size:10.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</td>
<td style="padding:0cm 0cm 0cm
0cm;height:15.75pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><strong><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">Affiliation</span></strong><span
style="font-size:10.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</td>
</tr>
<tr style="height:15.75pt">
<td style="padding:0cm 0cm 0cm
0cm;height:15.75pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt">Giacomo Indiveri</span><span
style="font-size:10.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</td>
<td style="padding:0cm 0cm 0cm
0cm;height:15.75pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt">ETH Zürich</span><span
style="font-size:10.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</td>
</tr>
<tr style="height:15.75pt">
<td style="padding:0cm 0cm 0cm
0cm;height:15.75pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt">Abigail Morrison</span><span
style="font-size:10.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</td>
<td style="padding:0cm 0cm 0cm
0cm;height:15.75pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt">Forschungszentrum
Jülich</span><span
style="font-size:10.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</td>
</tr>
<tr style="height:15.75pt">
<td style="padding:0cm 0cm 0cm
0cm;height:15.75pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt">Mark Ritter</span><span
style="font-size:10.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</td>
<td style="padding:0cm 0cm 0cm
0cm;height:15.75pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt">IBM Watson
Research Center</span><span
style="font-size:10.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</td>
</tr>
<tr style="height:15.75pt">
<td style="padding:0cm 0cm 0cm
0cm;height:15.75pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt">Guillermo Cecchi</span><span
style="font-size:10.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</td>
<td style="padding:0cm 0cm 0cm
0cm;height:15.75pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt">IBM Watson
Research Center</span><span
style="font-size:10.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</td>
</tr>
<tr style="height:15.75pt">
<td style="padding:0cm 0cm 0cm
0cm;height:15.75pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt">Anders Lansner</span><span
style="font-size:10.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</td>
<td style="padding:0cm 0cm 0cm
0cm;height:15.75pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt" lang="EN-US">KTH
Royal Institute of Technology</span><span
style="font-size:10.0pt" lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</td>
</tr>
<tr style="height:15.75pt">
<td style="padding:0cm 0cm 0cm
0cm;height:15.75pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt">Ahmed Hemani</span><span
style="font-size:10.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</td>
<td style="padding:0cm 0cm 0cm
0cm;height:15.75pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt" lang="EN-US">KTH
Royal Institute of Technology</span><span
style="font-size:10.0pt" lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</td>
</tr>
<tr style="height:15.75pt">
<td style="padding:0cm 0cm 0cm
0cm;height:15.75pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt">Steve Furber</span><span
style="font-size:10.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</td>
<td style="padding:0cm 0cm 0cm
0cm;height:15.75pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt">University of
Manchester</span><span
style="font-size:10.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</td>
</tr>
<tr style="height:15.75pt">
<td style="padding:0cm 0cm 0cm
0cm;height:15.75pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt">Kazuyuki Aihara</span><span
style="font-size:10.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</td>
<td style="padding:0cm 0cm 0cm
0cm;height:15.75pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt">University of
Tokyo</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</td>
</tr>
<tr style="height:15.75pt">
<td style="padding:0cm 0cm 0cm
0cm;height:15.75pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt">Karlheinz Meier</span><span
style="font-size:10.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</td>
<td style="padding:0cm 0cm 0cm
0cm;height:15.75pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt">Heidelberg
University</span><span
style="font-size:10.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</td>
</tr>
<tr style="height:15.75pt">
<td style="padding:0cm 0cm 0cm
0cm;height:15.75pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt">Andreas
Schierwagen</span><span
style="font-size:10.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</td>
<td style="padding:0cm 0cm 0cm
0cm;height:15.75pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt">Leipzig
University</span><span
style="font-size:10.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><strong><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""
lang="EN">For signing up to the Workshop please
use the registration form found at <u><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://bit.ly/1dkuBgR"><span
style="font-weight:normal">http://bit.ly/1dkuBgR</span></a><o:p></o:p></u></span></strong></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><strong><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";font-weight:normal"
lang="EN">You need to sign up before January 28<sup>th</sup>.<o:p></o:p></span></strong></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><strong><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";font-weight:normal"
lang="EN">Web page: <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.kth.se/en/om/internationellt/university-networks/deans-forum/workshop-on-brain-like-computing-1.442038">http://www.kth.se/en/om/internationellt/university-networks/deans-forum/workshop-on-brain-like-computing-1.442038</a>
</span></strong><b><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="mso-fareast-language:SV" lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="mso-fareast-language:SV" lang="EN-US">******************************************<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="mso-fareast-language:SV" lang="EN-US">Anders
Lansner<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="mso-fareast-language:SV" lang="EN-US">Professor
in Computer Science, Computational biology<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="mso-fareast-language:SV" lang="EN-US">School
of Computer Science and Communication<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="mso-fareast-language:SV" lang="EN-US">Stockholm
University and Royal Institute of Technology (KTH)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="mso-fareast-language:SV"><a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:ala@kth.se"><span
style="color:blue">ala@kth.se</span></a>,
+46-70-2166122<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<br>
<br>
<hr style="border:none; color:#909090;
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</table>
<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
--
Juyang (John) Weng, Professor
Department of Computer Science and Engineering
MSU Cognitive Science Program and MSU Neuroscience Program
428 S Shaw Ln Rm 3115
Michigan State University
East Lansing, MI 48824 USA
Tel: 517-353-4388
Fax: 517-432-1061
Email: <a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:weng@cse.msu.edu">weng@cse.msu.edu</a>
URL: <a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.cse.msu.edu/%7Eweng/">http://www.cse.msu.edu/~weng/</a>
----------------------------------------------
</pre>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
--
Juyang (John) Weng, Professor
Department of Computer Science and Engineering
MSU Cognitive Science Program and MSU Neuroscience Program
428 S Shaw Ln Rm 3115
Michigan State University
East Lansing, MI 48824 USA
Tel: 517-353-4388
Fax: 517-432-1061
Email: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:weng@cse.msu.edu">weng@cse.msu.edu</a>
URL: <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.cse.msu.edu/~weng/">http://www.cse.msu.edu/~weng/</a>
----------------------------------------------
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