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    Dear Matthew:<br>
    <br>
    My apology if my words are direct, so that people with short
    attention spans can quickly get my points.  I do respect you.<br>
    <br>
    You wrote: "to build hardware that works in a more brain-like way
    than conventional computers do.  This is not what is usually meant
    by research in neural networks."<br>
    <br>
    Your statement is absolutely not true.  Your term "brain-like way"
    is as old as "brain-like computing".  Read about the 14
    neurocomputers built by 1988 in Robert Hecht-Nielsen,
    "Neurocomputing: picking the human brain", IEEE Spectrum 25(3),
    March 1988, pp. 36-41.  Hardware will not solve the fundamental
    problems of the current human severe lack in understanding the
    brain, no matter how many computers are linked together.  Neither
    will the current "Big Data" fanfare from NSF in U.S..  The IBM's
    brain project has similar fundamental flaws and the IBM team lacks
    key experts.  <br>
    <br>
    Some of the NSF managers have been turning blind eyes to
    breakthrough work on brain modeling for over a decade, but they want
    to waste more taxpayer's money into its "Big Data" fanfare and other
    "try again" fanfares.  It is a scientific shame for NSF in a
    developed country like U.S. to do that shameful politics without
    real science, causing another large developing country like China to
    also echo "Big Data".  "Big Data" was called "Large Data", well
    known in Pattern Recognition for many years.  Stop playing shameful
    politics in science!  <br>
    <br>
    You wrote: "Nobody is claiming a `brain-scale theory that bridges
    the wide gap,' or even close." <br>
    <br>
    To say that, you have not read the book: <a
      href="http://www.brain-mind-institute.org/press.html">Natural and
      Artificial Intelligence</a>.  You are falling behind the
    literature so bad as some of our NSF project managers.  With their
    lack of knowledge, they did not understand that the "bridge" was in
    print on their desks and in the literature.     <br>
    <br>
    -John<br>
    <br>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 1/23/14 6:15 PM, Matthew Cook wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote
      cite="mid:3CB75368-ECE9-42B3-BBEB-E695E46DBAB0@paradise.caltech.edu"
      type="cite">Dear John,
      <div><br>
      </div>
      <div>I think all of us on this list are interested in brain-like
        computing, so I don't understand your negativity on the topic.</div>
      <div><br>
      </div>
      <div>Many of the speakers are involved in efforts to build
        hardware that works in a more brain-like way than conventional
        computers do.  This is not what is usually meant by research in
        neural networks.  I suspect the phrase "brain-like computing" is
        intended as an umbrella term that can cover all of these
        efforts.</div>
      <div><br>
      </div>
      <div>I think you are reading far more into the announcement than
        is there.  Nobody is claiming a "brain-scale theory that bridges
        the wide gap," or even close.  To the contrary, the announcement
        is very cautious, saying that intense research is "gradually
        increasing our understanding" and "beginning to shed light on
        the human brain".  In other words, the research advances slowly,
        and we are at the beginning.  There is certainly no claim that
        any of the speakers has finished the job.</div>
      <div><br>
      </div>
      <div>Similarly, the announcement refers to "successful
        demonstration of some of the underlying principles [of the
        brain] in software and hardware", which implicitly acknowledges
        that we do not have all the principles.  There is nothing like a
        claim that anyone has enough principles to "explain highly
        integrated brain functions".</div>
      <div><br>
      </div>
      <div>You are concerned that this workshop will avoid the essential
        issue of the wide gap between neuron-like computing and highly
        integrated brain functions.  What makes you think it will avoid
        this?  We are all interested in filling this gap, and the
        speakers (well, the ones who I know) all either work on this, or
        work on supporting people who work on this, or both.</div>
      <div><br>
      </div>
      <div>This looks like it will be a very nice workshop, with talks
        from leaders in the field on a variety of topics, and I wish I
        were able to attend it.</div>
      <div><br>
      </div>
      <div>Matthew</div>
      <div><br>
      </div>
      <div><br>
        <div>
          <div>On Jan 23, 2014, at 7:08 PM, Juyang Weng wrote:</div>
          <br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
          <blockquote type="cite">
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            <div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000"> Dear Anders,<br>
              <br>
              Interesting topic about the brain!  But Brain-Like
              Computing is misleading because neural networks have been
              around for at least 70 years.<br>
              <br>
              I quote: "We are now approaching the point when our
              knowledge will enable successful demonstrations of some of
              the underlying principles in software and hardware, i.e.
              brain-like computing."<br>
              <br>
              What are the underlying principles?  I am concerned that
              projects like "Brain-Like Computing" avoid essential
              issues: <br>
              the wide gap between neuron-like computing and well-known
              highly integrated brain functions.<br>
              Continuing this avoidance would again create bad names for
              "brain-like computing", just such behaviors did for
              "neural networks".<br>
              <br>
              Henry Markram criticized IBM's brain project which does
              miss essential brain principles, but has he published such
              principles?<br>
              Modeling individual neurons more and more precisely will
              explain highly integrated brain functions?   From what I
              know, definitely not, by far. <br>
              <br>
              Has any of your 10 speakers published any brain-scale
              theory that bridges the wide gap?  Are you aware of any
              such published theories? <br>
              <br>
              I am sorry for giving a CC to the list, but many on the
              list said that they like to hear discussions instead of
              just event announcements. <br>
              <br>
              -John<br>
              <br>
              <br>
              <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 1/13/14 12:14 PM, Anders
                Lansner wrote:<br>
              </div>
              <blockquote
                cite="mid:1fa801cf1082$f7844f30$e68ced90$@csc.kth.se"
                type="cite">
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                  <h1 style="background:white"><span lang="EN">Workshop
                      on Brain-Like Computing, February 5-6 2014<o:p></o:p></span></h1>
                  <p style="background:white"><span
                      style="font-size:10.0pt" lang="EN">The exciting
                      prospects of developing brain-like information
                      processing is one of the Deans Forum focus areas.<br>
                      As a means to encourage progress in this research
                      area a Workshop is arranged February 5th-6th 2014
                      on KTH campus in Stockholm. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
                  <p style="background:white"><span
                      style="font-size:10.0pt" lang="EN">The human brain
                      excels over contemporary computers and robots in
                      processing real-time unstructured information and
                      uncertain data as well as in controlling a complex
                      mechanical platform with multiple degrees of
                      freedom like the human body. Intense experimental
                      research complemented by computational and
                      informatics efforts are gradually increasing our
                      understanding of underlying processes and
                      mechanisms in small animal and mammalian brains
                      and are beginning to shed light on the human
                      brain. We are now approaching the point when our
                      knowledge will enable successful demonstrations of
                      some of the underlying principles in software and
                      hardware, i.e. brain-like computing.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
                  <p style="background:white"><span
                      style="font-size:10.0pt" lang="EN">This workshop
                      assembles experts, from the partners and also
                      other leading names in the field, to provide an
                      overview of the state-of-the-art in theoretical,
                      software, and hardware aspects of brain-like
                      computing.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
                  <h2 style="background:white"><span lang="EN">List of
                      speakers<o:p></o:p></span></h2>
                  <table class="MsoNormalTable"
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                          <p class="MsoNormal"><strong><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">Speaker</span></strong><span
                              style="font-size:10.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
                        </td>
                        <td style="padding:0cm 0cm 0cm
                          0cm;height:15.75pt">
                          <p class="MsoNormal"><strong><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">Affiliation</span></strong><span
                              style="font-size:10.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
                        </td>
                      </tr>
                      <tr style="height:15.75pt">
                        <td style="padding:0cm 0cm 0cm
                          0cm;height:15.75pt">
                          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                              style="font-size:10.0pt">Giacomo Indiveri</span><span
                              style="font-size:10.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
                        </td>
                        <td style="padding:0cm 0cm 0cm
                          0cm;height:15.75pt">
                          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                              style="font-size:10.0pt">ETH Zürich</span><span
                              style="font-size:10.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
                        </td>
                      </tr>
                      <tr style="height:15.75pt">
                        <td style="padding:0cm 0cm 0cm
                          0cm;height:15.75pt">
                          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                              style="font-size:10.0pt">Abigail Morrison</span><span
                              style="font-size:10.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
                        </td>
                        <td style="padding:0cm 0cm 0cm
                          0cm;height:15.75pt">
                          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                              style="font-size:10.0pt">Forschungszentrum
                              Jülich</span><span
                              style="font-size:10.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
                        </td>
                      </tr>
                      <tr style="height:15.75pt">
                        <td style="padding:0cm 0cm 0cm
                          0cm;height:15.75pt">
                          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                              style="font-size:10.0pt">Mark Ritter</span><span
                              style="font-size:10.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
                        </td>
                        <td style="padding:0cm 0cm 0cm
                          0cm;height:15.75pt">
                          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                              style="font-size:10.0pt">IBM Watson
                              Research Center</span><span
                              style="font-size:10.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
                        </td>
                      </tr>
                      <tr style="height:15.75pt">
                        <td style="padding:0cm 0cm 0cm
                          0cm;height:15.75pt">
                          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                              style="font-size:10.0pt">Guillermo Cecchi</span><span
                              style="font-size:10.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
                        </td>
                        <td style="padding:0cm 0cm 0cm
                          0cm;height:15.75pt">
                          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                              style="font-size:10.0pt">IBM Watson
                              Research Center</span><span
                              style="font-size:10.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
                        </td>
                      </tr>
                      <tr style="height:15.75pt">
                        <td style="padding:0cm 0cm 0cm
                          0cm;height:15.75pt">
                          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                              style="font-size:10.0pt">Anders Lansner</span><span
                              style="font-size:10.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
                        </td>
                        <td style="padding:0cm 0cm 0cm
                          0cm;height:15.75pt">
                          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                              style="font-size:10.0pt" lang="EN-US">KTH
                              Royal Institute of Technology</span><span
                              style="font-size:10.0pt" lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
                        </td>
                      </tr>
                      <tr style="height:15.75pt">
                        <td style="padding:0cm 0cm 0cm
                          0cm;height:15.75pt">
                          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                              style="font-size:10.0pt">Ahmed Hemani</span><span
                              style="font-size:10.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
                        </td>
                        <td style="padding:0cm 0cm 0cm
                          0cm;height:15.75pt">
                          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                              style="font-size:10.0pt" lang="EN-US">KTH
                              Royal Institute of Technology</span><span
                              style="font-size:10.0pt" lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
                        </td>
                      </tr>
                      <tr style="height:15.75pt">
                        <td style="padding:0cm 0cm 0cm
                          0cm;height:15.75pt">
                          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                              style="font-size:10.0pt">Steve Furber</span><span
                              style="font-size:10.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
                        </td>
                        <td style="padding:0cm 0cm 0cm
                          0cm;height:15.75pt">
                          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                              style="font-size:10.0pt">University of
                              Manchester</span><span
                              style="font-size:10.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
                        </td>
                      </tr>
                      <tr style="height:15.75pt">
                        <td style="padding:0cm 0cm 0cm
                          0cm;height:15.75pt">
                          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                              style="font-size:10.0pt">Kazuyuki Aihara</span><span
                              style="font-size:10.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
                        </td>
                        <td style="padding:0cm 0cm 0cm
                          0cm;height:15.75pt">
                          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                              style="font-size:10.0pt">University of
                              Tokyo</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
                        </td>
                      </tr>
                      <tr style="height:15.75pt">
                        <td style="padding:0cm 0cm 0cm
                          0cm;height:15.75pt">
                          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                              style="font-size:10.0pt">Karlheinz Meier</span><span
                              style="font-size:10.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
                        </td>
                        <td style="padding:0cm 0cm 0cm
                          0cm;height:15.75pt">
                          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                              style="font-size:10.0pt">Heidelberg
                              University</span><span
                              style="font-size:10.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
                        </td>
                      </tr>
                      <tr style="height:15.75pt">
                        <td style="padding:0cm 0cm 0cm
                          0cm;height:15.75pt">
                          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                              style="font-size:10.0pt">Andreas
                              Schierwagen</span><span
                              style="font-size:10.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
                        </td>
                        <td style="padding:0cm 0cm 0cm
                          0cm;height:15.75pt">
                          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                              style="font-size:10.0pt">Leipzig
                              University</span><span
                              style="font-size:10.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
                        </td>
                      </tr>
                    </tbody>
                  </table>
                  <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
                  <p class="MsoNormal"><strong><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""
                        lang="EN">For signing up to the Workshop please
                        use the registration form found at <u><a
                            moz-do-not-send="true"
                            href="http://bit.ly/1dkuBgR"><span
                              style="font-weight:normal">http://bit.ly/1dkuBgR</span></a><o:p></o:p></u></span></strong></p>
                  <p class="MsoNormal"><strong><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";font-weight:normal"
                        lang="EN">You need to sign up before January 28<sup>th</sup>.<o:p></o:p></span></strong></p>
                  <p class="MsoNormal"><strong><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";font-weight:normal"
                        lang="EN">Web page: <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.kth.se/en/om/internationellt/university-networks/deans-forum/workshop-on-brain-like-computing-1.442038">http://www.kth.se/en/om/internationellt/university-networks/deans-forum/workshop-on-brain-like-computing-1.442038</a>
                      </span></strong><b><span lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
                  <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
                  <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
                  <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                      style="mso-fareast-language:SV" lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
                  <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                      style="mso-fareast-language:SV" lang="EN-US">******************************************<o:p></o:p></span></p>
                  <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                      style="mso-fareast-language:SV" lang="EN-US">Anders
                      Lansner<o:p></o:p></span></p>
                  <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                      style="mso-fareast-language:SV" lang="EN-US">Professor
                      in Computer Science, Computational biology<o:p></o:p></span></p>
                  <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                      style="mso-fareast-language:SV" lang="EN-US">School
                      of Computer Science and Communication<o:p></o:p></span></p>
                  <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                      style="mso-fareast-language:SV" lang="EN-US">Stockholm
                      University and Royal Institute of Technology (KTH)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
                  <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                      style="mso-fareast-language:SV"><a
                        moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:ala@kth.se"><span
                          style="color:blue">ala@kth.se</span></a>,
                      +46-70-2166122<o:p></o:p></span></p>
                  <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
                </div>
                <br>
                <br>
                <hr style="border:none; color:#909090;
                  background-color:#B0B0B0; height: 1px; width: 99%;">
                <table style="border-collapse:collapse;border:none;">
                  <tbody>
                    <tr>
                      <td style="border:none;padding:0px 15px 0px 8px">
                        <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                          href="http://www.avast.com/"> <img
                            moz-do-not-send="true"
                            src="http://static.avast.com/emails/avast-mail-stamp.png"
                            border="0"> </a> </td>
                      <td>
                        <p style="color:#3d4d5a;
                          font-family:"Calibri","Verdana","Arial","Helvetica";

                          font-size:12pt;"> Detta epostmeddelande
                          innehåller inget virus eller annan skadlig kod
                          för <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                            href="http://www.avast.com/">avast!
                            Antivirus</a> är aktivt. </p>
                      </td>
                    </tr>
                  </tbody>
                </table>
                <br>
              </blockquote>
              <br>
              <pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">-- 
--
Juyang (John) Weng, Professor
Department of Computer Science and Engineering
MSU Cognitive Science Program and MSU Neuroscience Program
428 S Shaw Ln Rm 3115
Michigan State University
East Lansing, MI 48824 USA
Tel: 517-353-4388
Fax: 517-432-1061
Email: <a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:weng@cse.msu.edu">weng@cse.msu.edu</a>
URL: <a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.cse.msu.edu/%7Eweng/">http://www.cse.msu.edu/~weng/</a>
----------------------------------------------

</pre>
            </div>
          </blockquote>
        </div>
        <br>
      </div>
    </blockquote>
    <br>
    <pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">-- 
--
Juyang (John) Weng, Professor
Department of Computer Science and Engineering
MSU Cognitive Science Program and MSU Neuroscience Program
428 S Shaw Ln Rm 3115
Michigan State University
East Lansing, MI 48824 USA
Tel: 517-353-4388
Fax: 517-432-1061
Email: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:weng@cse.msu.edu">weng@cse.msu.edu</a>
URL: <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.cse.msu.edu/~weng/">http://www.cse.msu.edu/~weng/</a>
----------------------------------------------

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